Glyphing after 3.1.2 – is the innervate glyph worth it?

Okay, I’m going to borrow some numbers from 4haelz’ post about innervate:

  • The new innervate should always return 15732 mana at level 80. It doesn’t matter what any of your stats are. This is what it returns.
  • The glyph will give you 3146 mana if you cast innervate on someone else
  • If you cast innervate on yourself with the glyph, your total mana return is 18878.

So, should you bother getting the innervate glyph? Probably not. The glyph basically restores the amount of one mana pot every 6 minutes.

For level 80 raiding moonkin, my answer is definitely not. Since it’s always been a waste of a glyph slot for moonkin raiding. Raiding moonkin should be using the starfire, monfire, & insect swarm glyphs.

For PvP moonkin, it may actually be a possibility now, but it still really depends on how big your mana pool is, or how despterately you need mana, and what glyph set you work out…

For level 80 Restoration raiders - In any raid with Replenishment, and where you are letting lifeblooms bloom often enough, you shouldn’t really have mana problems. So, I could see this being useful only in situations where you are running OOM (probably 10-mans without replenishment, and maybe hard-modes in Ulduar). I’m using the Swiftmend, Nourish, and wild growth glyphs now.  I think all three of these benefit us more than the innervate glyph. We may end up needing the innervate glyph after Ulduar, when our mana pools get bigger – since Innervate won’t scale with our gear. Until then, I recommend skipping it.

In general, you should glyph for innervate if you really need the mana it returns. If you always cast it on someone else, but really need a little boost of your own, then you are welcome to keep using the glyph.  I just think resto druids got better glyphs than it in 3.1, and that we should be using the best available resources. I’m also updating my glyph recommendations in my healing guide to better reflect the glyph changes & what players have been saying about them after 3.1.

Innervate does not take you out of the 5 second rule while casting.

Based on my testing today, it looks like Innervate does NOT take you out of the 5 second rule. Thus, you gain zero spirit-based mana from innervate now. I tested this by un-specing my moonkin talent points, and comparing how my mana bar ticked when I was resto spec (with 3/3 intensity) verus how it ticked with a 0/0/0 spec without any regen talents or mana/5 on gear. In both tests, I spammed Nourish to keep me in the 5 second rule for the whole 20 seconds.

When innervate isn’t active and you are under the 5 second rule with intensity, the numbers on your mana bar scroll faster than you can actually read them to write them down and keep track of what your mana returns are. Under the 5 second rule, without any mana return talents or gear, your mana bar never ticks up, and only subtracts the mana that your spell costs you.

When innervate is active in my intensity spec, I get both the ticks from intensity and the ticks from innervate, so I have a constant increasing scroll of mana numbers flashing every few miliseconds. When innervate is active on my 0/0/0 spec, my mana bar increases at the rate that I get innervate ticks, and goes down at the rate I cast spells, and is visually very dramatically different than the ticks I get when I have the out of casting regen from spirit. So, no, without instensity, I’m not gaining any regen from spirit when innervate is active. I don’t really even need to do math on this. It’s not ticking like it does when you are out of the 5 second rule.

15 Comments

  1. Posted May 20, 2009 at 11:40 am | Permalink

    Lissanna, you stole the question from my head and answered it, and i didn’t even have to ask you. when i saw the change on innervate go live yesterday, i decided to check out your blog to see if you had any comments on the glyph’s change as far as raiding (since my raid week doesn’t begin until tonight, i was hoping you’d have gotten to test it out yesterday).

    i planned on coming back today and asking you your thoughts if you had none posted, but you beat me to it =D

    i think i’ll change my innervate to the regrowth glyph and see if it benefits me more than innervate. on average, i innervate priests more than myself, so i feel you are correct with saying the mana returned to me will be insignificant now.

    Poras
    Officer/Resto Druid
    -Pango Honoratus-

  2. Posted May 20, 2009 at 11:46 am | Permalink

    @poras – I fixed your note. :)

    That said, I got an e-mail from Scaresome asking about the glyph – and when I checked my google analytics there were a high number of google searches for the site with things like “base mana” as key terms… so I figured there was a lot of confusion about the innervate thing.

  3. Siobhann
    Posted May 20, 2009 at 3:00 pm | Permalink

    Does the glyph also grant the caster 20 seconds of O5SR regen? If so, it will give probably a thousand more mana. I’m not glyphing Innervate anyway, but you do need to get the math right…

  4. Posted May 20, 2009 at 3:47 pm | Permalink

    @ Siobhan – I don’t think the new innervate takes you out of the 5 second rule. I unspec’d my moonkin spec and I’ve been doing some testing, but it looks like it doesn’t take you out of the 5 second rule, now that it’s a flat mana return and not based on spirit regen.

    Since I spent the gold to unspec my druid’s talents, I’ll take some time to figure it out more and maybe post on it a bit more. I didn’t want to spend the gold to buy the glyph, but it’s going to work the exact same way as regular innervate does. See the second part I added on to this post about not gaining out of 5 second rule mana. :)

  5. Posted May 20, 2009 at 4:36 pm | Permalink

    lissanna, thanks :D

    @siobhan, i did some number crunching with my calculator and base stats tried with the innervate glyph and without the innervate glyph (before i switched to the regrowth glyph as stated i was going to do in my first comment under this post), and i tend to agree that the glyph isn’t showing any out-of-combat mp5 with it… lissanna’s numbers (or whoever she borrowed them from :D ) seem to be pretty accurate

    Poras
    Officer/Resto Druid
    -Pango Honoratus-

  6. Siobhann
    Posted May 22, 2009 at 2:33 pm | Permalink

    So the spell doesn’t match the tooltip. Thanks for the info – it is much appreciated. Are you number-crunchers going to post to the bug board? This may be an unintended bug.

  7. Siobhann
    Posted May 22, 2009 at 2:39 pm | Permalink

    Nevermind. It did say 450% base mana and O5SR on Wowhead but it’s changed now to only 450% base mana. Must have been a discrepancy between PTR and the live patch.

    Oh, well. I still get 15.7K mana back vs. the 12K I was getting before.

  8. Posted May 24, 2009 at 2:54 pm | Permalink

    L- Awesome post. I was going to do similar math for a blog post of my own about the new innervate, but honestly was NOT in the mood to figure it all out. Thanks for running the analysis! =D

  9. Posted May 25, 2009 at 10:14 am | Permalink

    I’ve been considering this glyph again only because one of our priests is -always- going OOM and I want to get something out of giving my innervate away >.>

    Great post with some good insight.

  10. Eagleshadow
    Posted May 25, 2009 at 9:31 pm | Permalink

    Interesting indeed, but since I’m a resto druid oriented on crit and haste more then on spelpower and mp5, I’m gonna keep using this glyph :)
    If i notice i have extra mana in bossfight i just overheal everything and everyone so that hardly anyone can die.
    I’d rather have some extra mana then risk going oom, so i guess decision on using this glyph really depends on what kind of gear stats you have.

  11. Mondas
    Posted May 26, 2009 at 4:49 pm | Permalink

    Eagleshadow, wow, just wow! I’ve never heard of a Resto druid who focussed on secondary stats. I hope it works for you.

    For me, I use nourish, swiftmend and wild growth glyphs. I also use Innervate on myself and pretty never on anyone else. If they asked for it they’d get it, but the raids seem to have few mana issues.

  12. Eagleshadow
    Posted May 27, 2009 at 9:00 pm | Permalink

    hi hi, thanks mondas ^^ I like to be special, It also happens that noone in my guild is able to outheal me… ever…
    I chose to use crit to proc nature’s grace as often as i can instead of stacking haste gear and it works quite well for me. If you are interested you can check my specc and gear stats on eu armory, search for eagleshadow. Just today on 10man ignis i hit 0 mana at the same time ignis hit 0% hp :) (innervate and mana pot in cd ofc)

  13. Grok
    Posted May 28, 2009 at 9:56 am | Permalink

    So, am I missing something here? Innervate regen is no longer based on spirit? So I don’t need to carry with me and macro into innervate a big ass staff anymore?

  14. Grok
    Posted May 28, 2009 at 10:04 am | Permalink

    (I should mention that I’ve not healed since TBC and only come back to resto this week as my guild needed some extra oompf, so a little out of touch!)

  15. Posted May 28, 2009 at 12:38 pm | Permalink

    Grok – Innervate doesn’t scale with anything anymore. No longer based on spirit at all.