What is the weakest druid talent?

weakest_link_05Okay, so we know that a lot of talent changes are going to come in the next expansion. They make major changes to the talent trees every expansion. We also know they are switching to a new “mastery” system, which will have a huge impact on how the talent trees are shaped. I’ll make a post later about what the druid mastery stats might look like, but for now, I would like to start taking a hard look at all three of our talent trees.

In past beta testing phases, I spent  a lot of time going over the talent trees and looking at where the weakest talents are that could use some examination. While the next expansion still definitely a long ways off, I wanted to get everyone thinking about it early, so I can start compiling things in advance. It’s also nice to do some looks at the talent trees at this point because there will likely be talent changes that go through with 3.3 and Icecrown Citadel.

Before I start working on some new analysis threads of the druid talent trees, I thought I would ask you guys the question: If you could change one talent in any of the druid talent trees, what would it be? You could talk about what you want it changed to, or just talk about what makes it a weak talent that should be either changed or replaced in some way.

For example, we already know that they want to get rid of talents that improve buffs, so Improved Mark of the Wild would be on the chopping block. This would allow them to possibly move down Natural Shape Shifter or Master Shape Shifter into an earlier part of the talent tree, so we could have moonkin & feral investing fewer points in the restoration tree.

So, what do you guys think are the weakest druid talents?

Edit: Apparently this exercise was fun enough that it spawned a post by Graylo, as well as Relevart on the weak spots of the moonkin talent trees. One more post from Ramdomsmo.

12 Comments

  1. lordkyanr
    Posted September 14, 2009 at 1:40 am | Permalink

    I’ve always thought that moonglow was pretty terrible. 9% cost reduction isn’t that spectacular, but you still have to invest a point into it to get to higher tiers.

    Revitalize seems like a lame attempt at giving resto druids some sort of replen., but doesnt seem good enough to pick up compared to other talents. Tranquil Spirit also seems place holder when its extremely difficult to run out of mana as a resto druid. Imp. Tranquility would be a billion times better if tranquility was say, raid wide, or something much more useful than party wide. Also with the changes to pushback Nature’s Focus is not nearly as good as it appears.

    In the feral tree nurturing instinct just seems sad. The wording makes the increase to healing from agility hard to understand and the healing while in cat form might as well be melded with another cat pvp talent (although if you remove it the 5 talents per tier “rule” has been broken).

  2. Posted September 14, 2009 at 3:25 am | Permalink

    Let’s see:

    Balance:
    Genesis- filler talent, misleading tooltip (doesn’t work for Rip/Rake/Pounce)
    Owlkin Frenzy- low proc rate, only useful for soloing, mana regen wtf?

    Feral:
    Feral Aggresion- talenting to buff a debuff? meh
    Improved Mangle- has to be 3pts or none, due to GCD; weak for both tanking and DPS

    Resto:
    Furor- obsoleted by Enrage change and need for pts in IMOTW; why would anger(Furor) give moonkin more intellect?
    Intensity (for ferals)- obsoleted by Enrage change
    Natural Perfection- 2% DR on enemy crit? Stacksx3 but only lasts 8secs? Just seems odd.

  3. Bai
    Posted September 14, 2009 at 3:50 am | Permalink

    Tranquil Spirit is one talent that I wish could be changed to something else or removed. It’s really common for people to dump their last 1-2 points into it and for the good it does them Blizzard could do us all a favor and revamp or remove this 5 point flop!

    As for my idea to replace the talent…
    What comes to mind is possibly unimaginative but I have felt since I saw the T8 4pc bonus that we would get an instant heal talented onto one of our Hots. Mainly because it is something that 2 other healing classes have been given while we are ‘THE’ hot class and don’t have a permanent tool like Riptide or Emp Renew. However, I don’t think Rejuv should get a permanent instant heal. Our use and abuse of the 4pc has shown that a spammable efficient hot with a snipe-heal worthy punch on the front-end is somewhat overpowered in raid environments.

    …Wild Growth!
    I think that it would be really interesting if we got a small (emphasis on small) and possibly random (% chance based) initial ‘punch’ of a heal with our Wild Growth. Ok, yes that sounds like an AMAZING buff to an already good raid heal, but Blizzard seems to be ok with us being good raid healers at this point in the game so this doesn’t put us somewhere we don’t belong. Most importantly, Wild Growth is on a cooldown, so we cannot spam it and we cannot depend on it to heal everything for us (we have limited control on who it heals). We would still have to hot-blanket with rejuvs for serious amounts of raid damage.

    It would just be a modest boost to one of our main raid heals which I feel is a bit low compared to the damage being put onto a raid (and which will most likely increase in Icecrown as it did in Sunwell). It would take a lot of balancing and testing but I would spend 5 talents to have a chance every cast for my WG to boost a target up faster. It just seems like a fun talent! Yes wishful thinking, but I like the idea of more random procs when I’m healing. :)

  4. Posted September 14, 2009 at 6:45 am | Permalink

    “Genesis- filler talent, misleading tooltip (doesn’t work for Rip/Rake/Pounce)”

    It’s in there for resto druids who off-spec into balance. It’s not meant to work for ferals.

    “Tranquil Spirit is one talent that I wish could be changed to something else or removed.”

    Ditto.

    As for my own, aside from Feral Aggression, I see Nurturing Instinct as pretty week. It could potentially be a PvP talent, but I don’t think it’s strong enough to stand on its own. Maybe it could be merged with Primal Tenacity.

  5. Posted September 14, 2009 at 8:31 am | Permalink

    You know my take on the resto talent weak-points for PvE raiding from a couple months back…

    As for feral, I would like to see a split in Feral Aggression between cat ad bear to further split the spec choices, perhaps making each of the first-tier feral talents a clear split between cat and bear, but beyond that the feral tree is quite strong, even around Nurturing Instinct (which several cats are known to drop a point for the purposes of raiding or soloing, as it does buff the heals from iLotP).

    Balance doesn’t really seem to have any unnecessary talents forced upon a raiding spec, either, though I have felt odd taking Intensity over Dreamstate for moonkin raiding. I would think that a balance talent should be better for that spec as a mana regen talent. I’m sure it will change up quite a bit, however, as mp5 is going the way of the dodo in favor of strict spirit regen across all classes.

  6. Posted September 14, 2009 at 6:57 pm | Permalink

    dreamstate. there is no such thing as an “oom”kin anymore… and besides, the resto talent that gives mana regen while casting actually gives more than dreamstate, and you gotta dip into the resto tree anyways as a moonkin.

    natural perfection. it’s a pvp talent, and i dont pvp. even if i did pvp… 2% or whatever it is wont make or break.

  7. Posted September 14, 2009 at 7:20 pm | Permalink

    I did not post that fifth comment, nor is the site it is linked to mine. I hope they did not somehow get my e-mail address, or I may have no way to prove it, but the comment after my first one is not mine.

  8. Arielle
    Posted September 14, 2009 at 7:44 pm | Permalink

    Personally I would love to be able to pick up Feral Aggression, but I can’t. As a 10m raider it would be nice to be able to provide a good AP debuff.

    Feral doesn’t really have any “bad” talents. They’re all pretty good. The problem is not having enough points to get all of the ones you want for your role.

    I’d be excited if they remove the physical damage bonus from Naturalist, and then move NSS&MSS down a tier.

  9. Lissanna
    Posted September 14, 2009 at 9:11 pm | Permalink

    Ardol, I think it was a differnt e-mail form yours. I’ll keep an eye on that for next time… I deleted that post for you.

  10. Posted September 15, 2009 at 9:07 am | Permalink

    Thank you, Lissanna.

  11. Posted September 15, 2009 at 9:36 am | Permalink

    Interesting topic. I did a full post on it, but to sum it up. From my perspective the biggest talent tree issues are Improved Moonfire and Tier 2 of the Resto tree.

    Improved Moonfire just doesn’t have much of an impact since Glyph of Moonfire was introduced.

    I don’t like teir 2 of the resto tree because it doesn’t provide an easy transition to Tier 3 for moonkin who want the talents on that level.

    http://graymatterwow.blogspot.com/2009/09/moonkins-weakest-link.html

  12. Kelriel
    Posted October 2, 2009 at 8:14 pm | Permalink

    I think they should remove tranquil spirit and merge revitalize with something else somehow.as for balance dreamstate is really unuseful talent.they should add a little overtime damage to starfire,cuz we dont use moonfire because of losing dps from glob.cøoldown…think about it.Thank you