Why Nourish is still better than Glyphed HT

Okay, so… Some people still seem to be glyphing for healing touch past level 80. I think some of it comes from hitting level 80 and trying to heal with outdated tools… There also seems to be some confusion about what the difference between Nourish and Glyphed Healing Touch actually is.

The difference is that Nourish is better, in just about every way.

Nourish has: Better mana cost, better synergy with other talents, better synergy with our other healing spells, and actually heals for more if you do it right.

Here’s my updated PTR healing number averages. These are without buffs, wearing my slightly outdated gear. So, this isn’t the max #’s you can get, it’s just an example. These are average scores, just to see how each compares to the other. So, my actual nourish casts end up being really high. My actual nourish numbers in raids are a lot higher.

Nourish with zero HOTs.

  • 22 casts, with 11 crits
  • Average without crits: 4985.27
  • Average with crits: 6261.36

Nourish with 1 HOT & Nourish Glyph:

  • 21 casts, with 10 crits
  • Average without crits: 6267.72
  • Average with crits: 7794.38

Glyphed Healing touch:

  • 22 casts, 6 crits
  • Average without crits: 5943.13
  • Average with crits: 6740.05

This means that glyphed Nourish with 1 HOT on the target heals for more than Glyphed HT. With the number of nature’s grace procs, both HT and Nourish are going to be at or near the 1 second Global Cool Down with haste, meaning that you won’t be able to chain cast HT any faster than you can with Nourish.  I also got twice as many Living Seed & Nature’s Grace procs with nourish than I did with Glyphed Healing Touch.

Even Ghostcrawler agrees that Healing Touch isn’t an important druid healing spell:

You can use Healing Touch with NS or glyphed to heal a 5-player run. Not every spell needs to be your go to button in raids. It would be a bigger deal if you only had 3 spells and weren’t using one.

So, it’s okay if we let go of Healing Touch. I don’t have it on my bar except for 1 place: In a macro paired with Nature’s Swiftness. I have the full strength HT paired with NS for a big instant burst heal, which you don’t have when you glyph HT.

For the most part, the main tools we should be using for raid healing are: Rejuv, Wild Growth, swiftmend, and Nourish. For tank healing, the focus is on HOTs & Nourish.

It’s okay to let go of Glyphed HT, pick up a better healing build, and use your HOTs, swiftmend, & nourish that are actually designed to work together for a really great healing combo.

6 Comments

  1. Posted September 20, 2009 at 1:41 pm | Permalink

    LOL…I have NS+HT macro and I only use it in PVP as my “oh shit this freakin Rogue is on me again!” heal.

    I think I’ve used HT ONCE in the last four or five months? I just have gotten used to Nourish + HOTs.

    I wonder what the next expansion will bring.

  2. Posted September 21, 2009 at 3:10 am | Permalink

    Same here, I dont pvp, but still the only reason HT is on my bar is because of NS.

  3. Bruski
    Posted September 21, 2009 at 7:19 am | Permalink

    Ah, but did you respec to move 5 points from Nature’s Bounty in Naturalist?
    Because when you’re using healing touch you don’t need Nature’s Bounty and Naturalist takes .5 seconds of Healing Touch’s cast time.
    On my druid:
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Chromaggus&n=Kaboomski
    Who it looks like is geared roughly the same level as yours, Glyphed healing touch heals 5800 average, and Nourish is 4900. With four hots Nourish heals 5800-5900.
    However, my Nourish Cast time is 1.2-1.3 seconds depending on buffs, and not counting Nature’s grace, since I won’t generally have that up, as most of my time is spent casting rejuv’s on the raid (rather overpoawered spell imo, using it I averaged 5,000 hps over Twins25 tonight.)
    My glyphed *and talented* Healing Touch cast time is .8-.7 seconds, so about .4-.5 seconds faster than Nourish.
    “But some of that doesn’t count because of the global cooldown!” you say.
    “But the tanks don’t wait until the global cooldown to die” I respond.
    Me and the other top resto druid in my guild generally heal using Rejuv, Wild Growth, and Healing Touch if someone is low. We are both “bad druids” who don’t use swiftmend, nature’s swiftness, lifebloom, or regrowth. However, we have healed our guild through all of Ulduar and ToC 25 withotu a hithc (along with a great pally healer and a couple great priests) and are sought after in raids.
    One of the reasons I simply can’t use Nourish is it feels SO SLOW after using glyphed and talented Healing touch. If the tank is low you do NOT want to wait that extra half second for your heal (which heals about the same) to land.
    That is my reason for using Healing Touch. I realize many may think me and my friend are insane, and you will never see such a build espoused on Elitist Jerks, but in clutch situations, which is the only time we use direct heals, we value reliable speed over more frequent (but unreliable) crits.
    Apologies for the long comment.
    -Bruski/Kaboomski

  4. Lissanna
    Posted September 21, 2009 at 10:14 am | Permalink

    I did it on the PTR with two different specs. One with a nourish-based spec and one with a HT-based spec.

    The HT spec is still just not as good. It just has horrible synergy with the rest of your spells, as you can tell by the fact that you neglect the other spells that would actually be helping you A LOT. Also, you have to add on 6% for every HOT only if you have the Nourish glyph, so if you are testing without the glyph, you aren’t getting a bonus after the first HOT (SO the Nourish numbers you posted are LOW unless you went and got the glyph for your testing, and you are ignoring nature’s grace’s cast speed bonus for nourish. If you glyphed nourish and had a nourish spec, then nourish would be faster & stronger). Swiftmend is faster than HT, and you say you ignore that button. If you really cared about speed, you’d swiftmend every time it was off the cooldown.

    You can’t get below a 1 second cooldown, so you are getting off fast casts, but still having to wait basically the exact same amount of time before you can cast anything again. Also, way back in Blackwing Lair, I healed as a full moonkin druid (about 13 or so points in resto, meaning no innervate). Just because you can do something, it doesn’t mean that you are doing it to the best of your ability (or that you couldn’t learn to do it a better way). However, if you want to do it that way, fine. Just don’t teach bad habits to new players – because relying on glyphed HT at level 80 is a bad habit (and so, with my goal to teach new players how to excel at their jobs, I have to tell them what is the better tools to use & how to use them. If you are already set in your ways, then it’s a lost cause, lol).

    At a certain level of haste, you don’t have a speed advantage because of GCD clipping, and the way that spell queueing interacts with GCD clipping. That’s why moonkin have such a hard time with haste – because going below the GCD lowers their DPS a small amount because they can’t spell queue anymore.

    Also, if you have 3 HOTs on your target for tank healing, then your nourish casts are getting SO MUCH BIGGER (along with the healing done by those 3 HOTs), that you aren’t going to be struggling and hoping to get off fast casts to keep your tank alive. You need fast casts with the HT build because it actually averages out to healing for a couple thousand less with 3 HOTs on the target, along with not getting the living seed procs with the same abundance (which actually does instant healing). Nourish isn’t actually half a second slower because you have high Nature’s Grace up-time that HT builds don’t have (and HT can’t actually benefit from because of GCD clipping). You have instant casts designed to be the “quick” heals (swiftmend, NS+HT), and Nourish supported by HOTs means you smooth out your tanks health so that you aren’t as worried about needing that .2 seconds faster you are actually getting with your HT build.

    If you actually used swiftmend in the places where you value HT speed, it would actually be faster. The problem with a glyphed HT build is that it has such poor synergy with your other abilities (compared to glyphed nourish), that you actually just hold yourself back by thinking the nearly unnoticeable speed advantage (with the right talents & nature’s grace procs) is actually helping compared to using more of your abilities that are actually supported by your talents, and using them in the right ways.

  5. Urus
    Posted September 21, 2009 at 5:29 pm | Permalink

    I have actually found a very good use for non-glyphed healing touch. When healing General Vezax I’ve found the most mana efficient healing I can produce is to put rejuvenation on the tank and then cast healing touch (making sure to stop casting if the healing will land as overheal).

    Urus – Hyjal

  6. Sydera
    Posted September 26, 2009 at 11:14 am | Permalink

    In the initial few weeks after Wrath’s release, glyphed HT had a place because Nourish was weak.

    Since then we’ve seen Nourish steadily improve through better talent synergy and a glyph.

    In addition, a Tier 9 resto druid has enough haste to make the shorter cast time on HT a non-issue.

    At this point, Lissanna is absolutely right, and a resto druid in Tier 8 or Tier 9 gear (with or without set bonuses and the Nourish glyph) SHOULD NOT glyph Healing Touch.

    As a side reason, that HT glyph spot could be filled with something that’s truly beneficial instead of something that mimics an existing spell. Glyphs of Swiftmend and Wild Growth are really quite wonderful and not to be missed. The glyph I drop in and out is actually Nourish, and that only for fights where I need to glyph Rebirth (a gimmick for some hard-modes only).