3.3.3 Druid changes – for moonkin pvp (or not)

First, the changes:

  • Typhoon mana cost has been reduced from 32% of base mana to 25% of base mana.
  • Starfall damage has been increased. Now causes 563 to 653 Arcane damage (Up from 433 to 503) and 101 Arcane damage (Up from 78) to all other enemies within 5 yards. Spell Power coefficients also increased.
  • Nature’s Grasp: Now has 3 charges, up from 1.

Typhoon:

First, the typhoon mana change is designed to help make typhoon not cause moonkin in PvP to go OOM. Typhoon needs to be something that moonkin can use often, so making it slightly less of a drain on their mana pools is a helpful change.

Starfall:

Designed to help starfall feel more useful. Gives probably a small-ish DPS increase for PvE (depending on how much you use starfall already). Unlikely to do anything significant for moonkin PvP. If each tick does a couple hundred more damage (at most), and you only get off 2 or 3 ticks in a PvP situation (at most), then it’s not really going to do what the developers had hoped it would do. Starfall is always going to be interrupted by Crowd Control, and no amount of crying is going to convince the developers otherwise, so the best hope for making starfall more useful for PvP is being able to capitalize on getting off the first couple ticks when you can.

UPDATE: It looks like starfall should be doing somewhere around 3x’s more on the PTR compared to what it is on Live. Should be a nice PvE boost. Not sure for PvP yet how it’s going to work out.

Nature’s Grasp:

Now has 3 charges? I’m really confused on how this could actually work for moonkin in terms of being something useful. It’s much more likely to help resto druids escape, since resto has the mobility to keep HOTs going while root-kiting. Feral  already has instant-cast cylones & roots with their cat form talent, which doesn’t require them to get hit in the first place. Moonkin can’t rely on nature’s grasp as an actual escape mechanism. Moonkin PvP’ers are worried that more procs that go to waste is not going to be helpful because it will just contribute to the diminishing returns (or just snag pets that you don’t want snagged). Unless it could root all 3 targets at once, then the charges won’t help moonkin (and it’s unlikely that they would give feral & resto an AOE root).

The nature’s grasp change, combined with all the other changes, really need to be tested on the PTR, and people need to post constructive feedback about why they are (or aren’t) working. However, anything that makes this a viable escape mechanism for moonkin would likely be overpowering for resto druids. In fact, resto probably benefits the most from this in PvP because they have improved barkskin and other mechanics (like instant-cast spells) that help them escape while also being able to cast something worthwhile on the run. We really need to see this in action to get a better idea of how it’s effecting the 3 specs.

UPDATE: GC says that the roots from Nature’s Grasp can apply to other people without breaking the previous roots (so you could potentially have 4 people rooted at once if you were super lucky).

Conclusions:

All 3 of these are buffs. The typhoon one buffs PvP moonkin’s mana. The second one buffs moonkin PvE. The third is likely to benefit resto druids the most. None of these are the actual moonkin PvP fixes that they were looking for, which is why there has been a string of rather non-productive posts on the damage dealing forums. The lack of focus in all the moonkin threads, however, makes it particularly hard to see if the buffs are actually going to help moonkin PvP or not. I’m hoping that people will start talking about their actual PTR PvP results once things settle down. I gave up on moonkin PvP so long ago that I don’t even think I could do any worthwhile PTR PvP testing at this point. The good, productive, posts are also being lost in the low signal-to-noise ratio on the forums.

UPDATE – More info on Starfall:

Hey Hamlet, sorry for any confusion. We probably should have just waited until you guys could test it on the PTR.

I think I figured out how you all are calculating the coefficient, so maybe this will make more sense. Again, I’m not 100% sure we’re speaking the same language here. If I have time, maybe I will just log in with a moonkin and compare the before and after and post numbers.

Main star
Old coefficient: 4.8%
New coefficient: 37%

Splash damage
Old coefficient: 1.2%
New coefficient: 13%

As I said, these numbers are very generous. If Balance druids melt the world we may have to back off of them.

11 Comments

  1. krizzlybear
    Posted February 25, 2010 at 12:44 am | Permalink

    I’m quite impressed with the constructive discussion in the mage 3.3.3 thread on the dd forums. Even ghostcrawler stepped in to respond to particular concerns. I suppose it helps that the buffs that mages have been receiving allow room for discussion regarding Frost and Fire PvE. Lhivera has done a great job “moderating” the direction of the discussion, and I was wondering if Boomkin have the same community representative/authority as Lhivera is to Frost Mages and Mages in general?

  2. Posted February 25, 2010 at 2:51 am | Permalink

    Oh, how I wish we had this Nature’s Grasp change when I was doing ToC… This particular resto druid is spectacularly bad at anythiing PvP-ish, so she got pwned over and over by the Horde champions… especially that bloody hunter pet who likes chewing on bark.

  3. Posted February 25, 2010 at 8:54 am | Permalink

    I loved the Faction Champion fight in ToC, lol. Then again, I’m avid player of both PVE and PVP so I had lots of arena practice (as a good 5s match is just as hectic as the FC fight).

    Those “buffs” – while they are indeed a buff – are a joke. In fact, I don’t know if this constitutes an official response but:

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAH!

    I think I’m going to fully trick out my healing spec to be just that, and drop Boomer so can fully dedicate my offspec to PvP resto. Boomer is such a joke now in our guild that the one really good boomer we have is the only one they’re willing to take. I’ll just ride this x-pac out and see what Catclysm has in store, because this tail end of WotLK is just teh suck, and it didn’t start off that way. I’d even argue that is was actually pretty nice for awhile for Boomkins.

    That “buff” to Starfail is beyond lame.

    Although I think as a PvP resto, I might have some usage out of that Nature’s Grasp 3-charge change, I can’t imagine anyone else getting any benefit out of it, including Boomers who desparately need more attention in PVP other than to reduce Typhoon’s mana cost.

    Ok, rant over. One day Boomers…the day will yours! Not mine…I’ll be the tree dancing behind you healin your feathery butt. Heh. :D

  4. Posted February 25, 2010 at 12:50 pm | Permalink

    I apologize in advance, but holy SHIT. Is that a typo?

    Main star
    Old coefficient: 4.8%
    New coefficient: 37%

    Splash damage
    Old coefficient: 1.2%
    New coefficient: 13%

    There’s a decimal in the first and not in the second. That’s . . . nuts.

  5. Lissanna
    Posted February 25, 2010 at 1:16 pm | Permalink

    Not a typo. He repeated similar numbers in another thread on the same topic.

    Now, we still need to test it on the PTR to see how big the #’s are actually going to get…

  6. Stiltskin
    Posted February 25, 2010 at 4:53 pm | Permalink

    To be honest, Ive found my Boomkin to be competitive in dps – much better than my equally geared lock – and the reason my druid is now my main after 4 years of being a lock.
    The new starfall change will significantly boost my dps – in ICC25 I was getting 9k dps on the room with deathwhisper where i was about 3rd in dmg and I expect this to give me a healthy bump.
    If its good enough I will drop the IS glyph and go for starfall – could be godly in cases where there is lots of movement.

  7. Neyuna
    Posted February 25, 2010 at 5:28 pm | Permalink

    I logged onto the PTR quick and indeed the change is massive. I had main stars crits for over 6k and splash crits around 1800 with Glyph of Focus. I hope that because if has a cooldown, it doesn’t get nerfed. There are plenty of other aoe spells- casted and channeled that can do this type of damage. The tooltips aren’t updated yet though.

    Also, Typhoon is 804 mana with the glyph.

  8. Lissanna
    Posted February 25, 2010 at 7:39 pm | Permalink

    Well, resilience is going to soak up a lot of that crit damage, so while it’ll be big for PvE, the PvP implications with resilience should keep it from being imbalanced.

  9. Posted February 26, 2010 at 3:52 am | Permalink

    I’ll definitely be switching over to Glyph of Starfall if this goes live from Glyph of Insect Swarm (which I never really liked that much functionally anyway, liked having the hit debuff on bosses for the tanks)

    Regarding Moonkins in PvE, we are competitive and this boost will make that even more the case. I might even be able to look at the top 5 of the chart more easily now :) Usually I’m happy being in the top 15 or so in the guild, because the difference between 15 and 4 is usually to the order of half a % or so, may not be quite that or whatever but still, middle pack is quite even spread of damage :)

  10. Wooglie
    Posted February 26, 2010 at 5:14 am | Permalink

    So Glyph of Focus and/or Glyph of Starfall? Both could see some mean DPS from just one spell.
    http://www.wowhead.com/?item=44928
    http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40921

  11. Lissanna
    Posted February 26, 2010 at 9:34 am | Permalink

    You still want to keep the moonfire/starfire glyphs, so you can only have 1 of the glyphs that buff starfall. Graylo’s math supports glyph of starfall but not glyph of focus for PvE.

    For PvP/arena, glyph of focus may be better so that you can avoid breaking CC in some cases by tightening up the range on it.