Cataclysm Gearing: Is reforging something to look forward to?

Okay, so my moonkin is having a terrible time trying to gear up in ICC. I’m having a hard time finding things like belts & bracers out of the 25-man instance that would be worthwhile, and I had to pick up a crit/spirit dagger off Morrow (paired with an off-hand I had from the ICC 5-mans). All the upgrades I really want are either in the 10-man or from badges.

All my gearing frustration, however, just makes me want Cataclysm to come sooner. So, lets take a look at what has me so excited about gearing my moonkin in Cataclysm.

Here’s a quote from my post at the Blizzcon Class pannel:

Reforging – Customizing gear. Relatively cheap. Given to blacksmiths, leatherworkers, tailors, Jewelcrafters, & Engineers. Reduce one stat for more of another (some restrictions apply).

Now, there are tons of items right now where I go: That would be great except that it has X stat instead of Y stat. We could turn a spirit-heavy resto item into a spirit-light moonkin item (since we were told no spirit for moonkin).

So, I did some digging around, and here’s is some info I’ve been able to dig up on reforging:

It’s too early to go into a lot of detail on the new features, but the basic idea here was to make an undesirable drop possibly more desirable. It still shouldn’t compete with gear that is actually itemized for you.

As an example, letting someone turn stamina into a dps stat is something we’d be unlikely to do (or at least impose a lot of restrictions) since that lets you turn an undesirable stat for most characters into something good.

Think of reforging more as a consolation prize or as a way to work around things like hit caps, and not the kind of thing that clever players are going to be able to use to vastly min max their character power.

Along with this one here:

Imagine reforging could work like enchanting, where there are specific recipes that everyone knows. Example: “Converts Spirit into 50% equivalent hit rating on gloves.” I’m not saying it would work like this, but something along those lines would be pretty comparable to existing features.

I still think that being able to turn spirit into a DPS-friendly stat, or changing hit rating into another stat (OR adding hit rating to an item if needed) could be a very powerful use fo this feature. I would like to think that they would design Reforging so that hybrids like moonkin (who they never really want to design specialized gear for) will benefit a lot from this kind of change. We don’t really need to change stamina into damage dealing stats, but we will benefit from being able to turn healer gear into DPS gear.

What stats moonkin should want in cataclysm:

What stats resto should want in cataclysm:

  • Int (will give SP), spirit, haste crit, & the new mastery stat.

So, the theory would be that moonkin could potentially take the healing gear with spirit and turn it into something worthwhile for us, and resto could take something without spirit to turn it into something with spirit.

But there’s always a catch. Here are the Potential Problems:

  • It may only remove half of the unwanted stat, leaving gear with half the unwanted stat (ie. hit or spirit for caster leather). So, that gear really would be sub-optimal and perhaps make the reforging system not actually all happy like I first thought it might be.  This would leave Blizzard still having to make leather without spirit on it for moonkin, as we wouldn’t be able to remove all the spirit from healing leather.
  • EDIT: It may also potentially be designed take more than it gives back, IE. taking all the spirit but only giving you half the value back in another stat, which would mean the item ends up not really being a replacement for well-itemized gear for that slot. If you have to do this for half your gear for end-game raiding, suddenly you are losing out on an awful lot of stats you could have had with better itemized gear in the first place.
  • If Blizzard has further incentives for classes to use their highest armor type (in this case, leather for druids), moonkin may be more prohibited from wearing cloth than we already are, and the reforging system may have raid leaders being more reluctant to let moonkin take cloth drops. Add to that the fact we can’t roll “need” on cloth from 5-man dungeons, and things may still be tricky for moonkin to gear up in Cataclysm.
  • Blizzard has a long history of not wanting to make item drops that only one spec of one class will want to wear. Since Moonkin & elemental shaman are niche-specs that tend to not be super abundant in raid groups, I’m betting that these two specs will still have a hard time gearing up in Cataclysm raid dungeons, since Blizzard may see reforging as the best way to let us turn healing gear into DPS gear, which could potentially leave moonkin with really still sub-optimal gear and no way to turn all the junk stats into stats we want.

Conclusions:

Reforging has the potential to be a great opportunity for Blizzard to deal with specs like moonkin & elemental shaman that can’t just DPS in healing gear (and shouldn’t heal in hit rating gear), but don’t otherwise share gear with anyone else.

However, the only way for reforging to fill this role is if ALL of spirit or hit rating can be removed from an item and converted into a wanted stat for other specs that share the gear. Otherwise, Reforging is never going to let casters and healers share gear, and will leave us with the same problems with gearing that we have right now. It also needs to give back enough of the wanted stat so that you aren’t losing huge chunks of stats if you are forced to reforge rather than be given good options for your gear. These may also be the only two stats where removing all of it from an item should need to be an option. I’m sure melee classes would benefit from being able to remove all the hit from an item, so that they could turn hit-rating pieces into something useful for them after they reach the hit-cap. In this case, everyone could win.

19 Comments

  1. Robert
    Posted February 6, 2010 at 1:57 pm | Permalink

    I read the second blue post to mean that you would be able to remove all of an unwanted stat, but that you’d only get half of the value you removed back in your new stat.

  2. Lissanna
    Posted February 6, 2010 at 2:23 pm | Permalink

    My reference for maybe only removing half, or only giving half comes from the wowwiki post on reforging. We don’t really know how it’s going to work. I also added that second blue post after I had written the rest of the article.

    However, if it takes all of the stat and only gives back half it’s value, then you are going to be losing out in the long run compared to just having gear that is actually itemized for your spec (which I doubt they will actually get right for moonkin in Cataclysm). I’ll add in a note about this possibility for my analysis.

    It’s hard to talk about things that haven’t happened yet. I have no idea if they really know what reforging will look like or not, since all our info on it is multiple months old.

  3. Posted February 6, 2010 at 10:29 pm | Permalink

    If Blizz let us simply use some leather, scales, or metal to move gear up a tier and increase its armor without changing the stats, we could solve the larger part of this problem. Resto druids could use healing priest gear, elemental shamans could use moonkin gear, and holy paladins could use resto shaman gear. Of course, under such a system, healing leather, healing plate, and spell-DPS mail couldn’t exist, since that would defeat the purpose, but in the end, I think it would work. Failing that, perfect reforging (rather than reforging that sacrifices stats) is the only option.

  4. scaresome
    Posted February 7, 2010 at 1:24 am | Permalink

    Plus, with the LFD feature, we could reforge on an item for a short time while hoping for the piece we really want to drop.

  5. scaresome
    Posted February 7, 2010 at 1:25 am | Permalink

    … because so many items drop because we are running so many dungeons because it make the game so fun.

  6. Lissanna
    Posted February 7, 2010 at 1:36 am | Permalink

    but what if reforging is expensive? lol

    Also, I keep trying to say “runeforging” instead of “reforging” and it’s a problem, lol

  7. Maaya
    Posted February 7, 2010 at 6:07 am | Permalink

    It’s very likely that you won’t be able to remove all of one stat. Remember the over-shadowing criteria that “gear selection must be fun”. That means, from pasts experience, that we will always be choosing from different badly itemized gear, until the very last tier of the expansion.

    The description “consolation prize” says it all, I think.

  8. Lissanna
    Posted February 7, 2010 at 10:41 am | Permalink

    It still doesn’t hurt to ask. I mean, what I’m really asking for is for moonkin to not have to run around with spirit on their gear (because we were told no more spirit for caster DPS), but leather/mail wearers also don’t want to constantly lose out on stats by having to convert the majority of our gear from healing stuff.

  9. Posted February 7, 2010 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

    Well it would certainly help in my haste endeavors, this reforging stuff. I mean, I’d love to fork over some crit for some haste at the moment.

    I hate the gear stats as they exist now. I’m actually glad they are being scaled down. too many to itemize for…it’s nuts!

  10. Lissanna
    Posted February 7, 2010 at 12:44 pm | Permalink

    the melee stats are being streamlined, but I think the # of caster stats isn’t really changing.

  11. Posted February 7, 2010 at 5:04 pm | Permalink

    Spellpower and intellect are being merged into one stat, and DPS won’t use spirit or MP5. The number of stats casters *worry about* may not be changing, but the number of casters stats certainly is.

  12. Vaeg
    Posted February 9, 2010 at 9:37 am | Permalink

    This will also be great for bear druids. PVP gear is already competitive with some raid gear due to the high amount of stamina. If we could turn the resilience into a little extra dodge or expertise, it would be even better.

  13. Lissanna
    Posted February 9, 2010 at 10:42 am | Permalink

    they were planing to put more stamina on all gear, so there may not be that much of a difference between stam on pvp versus pve gear. However, turning pvp gear into pve gear (or vice versa) could still potentially be possible with that system, if they put in a way to change things to & from resilience.

  14. moonykin
    Posted February 10, 2010 at 3:42 am | Permalink

    is this going to be a once done thing to an item or will there be an option to have it removed. say i get rid of hit in favour of crit then i get more gear for other slots and need the hit back , could i then convert the crit back to hit.

  15. Lissanna
    Posted February 10, 2010 at 10:04 am | Permalink

    Moonykin – We haven’t been told yet, far as I know.

  16. Joel
    Posted February 15, 2010 at 3:51 am | Permalink

    If you scroll up, about the bear stam…. i really dont think bear tanks are missing out on a whole lot of stam as it is to be honest:O i see like 45k bear tanks daily in dalaran, whishing that i hadnt rolled a stupid bloody dk. as for this moonkin thing, since i think 3.1 blizz has started to improve the drops in toc,htoc ect. probably 50% for heals and boomy. my personal view outside of the bubble. no 80 druids here (yet)>.<

    hunters will be wicked as my personal opinion for cata [*L*]peace out

  17. Gallena
    Posted February 15, 2010 at 1:05 pm | Permalink

    I keep reading these bits about moonkin not supposed to be using spirit, “no more spirit for DPS Casters” comments, and yet, I haven’t seen a single successful moonkin manage to compete with less than 800 SPI, I mean, it’s not an optimal stat, but in a roughly 7int:4spi ratio, it seems to be working just fine. couple that with the “resto” leather non-tier pieces, the Ashen Verdict ring, and caster DPS accessories, I honestly see no problem with the current gearing, and yes, I do raid moonkin.

  18. Lissanna
    Posted February 15, 2010 at 1:06 pm | Permalink

    They’re getting rid of the conversion of spirit -> DPS stats from the DPS talent trees in Cataclysm. It’s not something that they’ve changed yet.

  19. Chezza
    Posted February 16, 2010 at 12:52 am | Permalink

    Turn +hit on spell leather into +mp5, +spirit or +haste.