Beta Resto & moonkin changes build 12604

So, tonight Blizzard sprung a surprise Cataclysm Beta patch on us that had some druid changes.

They are mostly fixes where they fleshed out the talent trees a little bit more so that we could actually beta test without being totally broken. In the previous build, we were fighting bugs like some of us having our talents reset after every time we logged or turned in a quest.

The new current build actually looks a lot like the “fake” feedback talent trees I made a couple patches ago, after they put in the first draft of their 31-point talent trees. That mostly just means that we got important talents put back in (like moonkin form, typhoon, etc), and that they didn’t really do much new designing to the actual talents.

That means they still have a lot of work to make druid talent trees a lot more fun before things go live.

That said, lets look at the goodies we got this patch:

Highlights of the Latest talent changes for moonkin:

  • Lunar justice is gone – this is a good change, since the talent was pretty lame in the smaller talent trees, since it was something anyone would skip for PvP or raiding since you’d never be in melee range to benefit from it. It was essentially a leveling talent or a “neat” toy that didn’t really serve a functional purpose.
  • More resto-friendly talents in the first 2 tiers (For example, Nature’s Majesty crit % increase is back)
  • Earth & Moon is back, along with moonkin form & typhoon.
  • Improved Eclipse removed – this is good, since it was incompatible with the change to Eclipse that makes faster Eclipse Power gains make the buff shorter, negating any real damage bonus. I already didn’t like how many points we were spending on improving Eclipse, anyway.

Highlights of the latest talent changes for resto:

  • Master Shapeshifter added back into the talent trees, requiring Natural Shapeshifter. This is going to be an interesting decision, since that puts 9 talent points-worth of talents for feral & moonkin in the first 2 tiers of the resto tree, and you’ll have to decide if Natural/master shape-shifter is worth the 4 point investment.
  • Gift of the Earth Mother was properly added back into the talent tree, so we got back the instant heal from rejuvenation.
  • Other talents were shifted around to compensate for Swiftmend being properly removed from the talent tree.
  • Empowered Rejuvenation is marked as “to be redesigned”, most likely because there are too many flat bonuses to increased HOT healing in the talent trees and it’s still redundant.

Conclusions:

Feral also got a couple bug fixes (like Mangle working now). Also, as Verdus pointed out in the comments, Heart of the Wild is back in Tier 1 feral, which would be an interesting addition to any resto or moonkin’s talent builds.

I basically consider this build to be the “bug fix” patch, since they mostly just added back in the talents required to have a functional talent tree, without really making any of the super interesting changes they have been making to other classes. At this point, I feel like the druid talents got back to where all the other classes were last patch, and now everyone else is still ahead of us in development. Notice how I didn’t talk about talents other than ones that already existed before. rather than new talents. There are also still a ton of really boring talents that do nothing but increase damage or healing, and feral doesn’t have many changes this pass.

However, now that we have all these fixes to the talent tree, I finally have something I can give actual feedback on, since I couldn’t test balance druids without things like moonkin form in the talent tree. I’ll have more feedback posts later on over the next couple days as I do more testing.

Slowly but surely, we’ll keep working on things to get something a little more fun for druids in Cata.

15 Comments

  1. EnderAsha
    Posted July 23, 2010 at 1:10 am | Permalink

    I’m curious as to what the consensus is in the beta for resto druids as the current build stands. I know that it is a “bug fix” patch and so far people are being really tolerant of the talent trees because they were broken prior to this push. I get all of that. My question is where do you see them going from here because as a outside observer there are many critical flaws in the resto tree.

    Right now there are 4 talent points wasted (a lot given 41 max) on talents such as Natural Shapeshifter and 1 point in Perseverence just to get to the third tier in the tree (assuming Master Shapeshifter stays a 1 point talent). Neither of those talents are useful to leveling resto druids to be honest which seems to defy their master plan.

    Resto still seems to have more feeder talents than the other trees and its getting ridiculous. Furor is the only talent in one of the trees that does absolutely nothing for that tree whatsoever…you can even make a pretty solid case for Natural Shapeshifter as well. I don’t get my Resto loses so much real estate catering to feral and boomkin where the other two trees have more dual purpose talents.

    Have they hinted at fixing Tree form any time soon? How do you feel about the 50% snare and a 5 minute cooldown? I’d also love to know if there is any love coming to the treeform synergies with our spells. Double stacking lifebloom seems completely useless with the limitations added to it.

    • Lissanna
      Posted July 23, 2010 at 10:15 am | Permalink

      This is my notice of what changed, and then over the course of the weekend, I test the talents, and then rip each of the talent trees apart again. :)

      • EnderAsha
        Posted July 23, 2010 at 2:22 pm | Permalink

        Well we can complain till the cows (or Tauren) come home about the talent trees clearly lots of people are not happy with how they are set up. I am dying to know if you’ve done any extensive testing on the tree of life cooldown and how it interacts with our spells in a useful manner. The only reason why I ask is clearly there must be something impressive there given how huge the snare is. I keep comparing it to cooldowns in live like Metamorphosis and Hysteria that provide significant boosts with very little drawback and then I look at +15% healing and sigh. I know some people loved those “burst” trinkets back in Vanilla but I personally can’t stand them I much prefer constant effects rather than situational ones when it comes to healing.

        The list I pulled off the interwebs was the following (with commentary):

        Regrowth: Instant cast (If regrowth is going to be our super fast spell @1.5 seconds then it’s damn near close to the output speed of instant spells if you take into account GCD, the advantage of instant cast usually that you can cast while moving. A 50% movement snare seems to strongly contradict this)

        Lifebloom: Applies an additional application (If you can have it on one person at a time…all this seems to do is save one gcd and that is it. I am not really impressed)

        Wild Growth: Affects an additional two targets (first real nice application of the tree of life, however the nerf to its healing and long cooldown make it slightly less attractive of a bonus)

        Entangling Roots: Instant cast, damage increased by 200% (pvp maybe? Meh)

        Wrath: Cast time reduced by 50%, damage increased by 30% (I have no words for this one, solo tree of life dps go?)

        • Lissanna
          Posted July 23, 2010 at 3:00 pm | Permalink

          At this point, they haven’t implemented the “neat” effects for tree form. All they do is add green text to the tooltip of things they could maybe do in the future. They obviously just haven’t gotten around to fixing tree form yet…

  2. Posted July 23, 2010 at 2:05 am | Permalink

    *Gift of the Earth Mother was properly added back into the talent tree, so we got back the instant heal from rejuvenation.*

    Bless!

    *Empowered Rejuvenation is marked as “to be redesigned”, most likely because there are too many flat bonuses to increased HOT healing in the talent trees and it’s still redundant.*

    Moonra is scared…

    I guess it’s a start, still lots of thing that I would like to see diff but then again I can only wait…

    Still not sure if I would go Balance or stay Resto in CC

    • Lissanna
      Posted July 23, 2010 at 10:03 am | Permalink

      No, the point of the new talent trees is so that we don’t have to spend 10 of your 41 points just on super redundant passive bonuses that are all doing the same thing. That doesn’t mean there will be anything wrong with those spells, as they will be able to just tweak other nobs to balance spells to still be powerful.

      Things like Nature’s bounty and Gift of the Earth Mother mostly buff HOTs in a way that makes them more interesting. You don’t need imp rejuv, empowered rejuv, blessing of the grove, and genesis to all do the same thing for you. Improved Rejuv was the one I suggested they cut instead…

  3. Posted July 23, 2010 at 2:48 am | Permalink

    Note, however, that the Gift of the Earth Mother we have now only does 6% of the healing instantly, down from 15% two builds ago.

    Though I shouldn’t complain about exact numbers this early in the balancing process.

  4. Verdus
    Posted July 23, 2010 at 3:25 am | Permalink

    You forgot one nice change: Heart of the Wild is back, and sitting pretty on tier 1 of the Feral tree. That puts its nom-tastic 12% intellect buff in easy reach of both Balance and Resto. I have no idea if it will last, but it’s nice to see a Feral talent that’s actually of use to the rest of us.

    • Lissanna
      Posted July 23, 2010 at 10:05 am | Permalink

      I saw it, but I was rushing out the post last night and I mostly skipped feral as I was going through. However, with Heart of the Wild in T1 feral, you actually may want to put points in HOTW over some of the other options that you have, since that int bonus is super powerful.

  5. Posted July 23, 2010 at 10:59 am | Permalink

    I want to personally thank you, for you doing your part and crusading very hard for us, both in game and out of game.

    I was very concerned, when the changes for Cata first came out, pertaining to resto druids. I have never really been one to cry “nerf” or anything like that, but I genuinely was worried that my druid would be something I would not want to play in the expansion.

    I wasn’t going to lash out wildly and rant and rave about it. I would haved like a chance to be in the Beta and fighting for the class I enjoy, myself and Lord knows I have cashed in every favor to try and get a beta key – lol

    But it makes feel extremely good to see your very hard work and your dedication and I feel like you are a strong voice for us and I am pleased with the findings you have shared with us and the things you continue to push for. I thank you from the bottom of my roots!

    :)

  6. Tinderhoof
    Posted July 23, 2010 at 12:38 pm | Permalink

    “and you’ll have to decide if Natural/master shape-shifter is worth the 4 point investment.”

    When I first saw this yesterday I also was disapointed. But look closely at Master Shape Shifter. It does not say “Requires 3 points in Natural Shape Shifter”. To get Master Shape Shifter only requires 2 points total. This I am sure is a relief to everyone.

  7. Tim
    Posted July 23, 2010 at 1:15 pm | Permalink

    Damn. I really hope they choose to make Moonkin form the level ten ability for balance druids.

    • Lissanna
      Posted July 23, 2010 at 3:04 pm | Permalink

      Moonkin form doesn’t actually do a whole lot, so it would be a bad level 10 spell, because having a nice Damage cooldown is much better for leveling. :)

  8. Posted July 24, 2010 at 3:08 am | Permalink

    Wow, I would HEART having Heart of the Wild in my resto build. What’s funny is when I’m changing specs from bear to resto in Lich King, I’ll put on my resto gear first…with resto gear and a bear build I have a whopping 5-7K more mana, lol. I always thought that was funny for some reason, call me easily amused.

    Putting Heart of the Phoenix in the top tier though would PROBABLY mean that the intellect increase will get nerfed. If Intel is our new “spellpower” stat, there’s no way Blizz would give us that much of a passive boost. But it would still be nice to have access to it, so I can live with the slight nerf.

    So with the setback from the Worgen models, I’m thinking our new form models are on the back burner? Seems kind of lame. Weren’t they talking about the possiblity of treeform going to a War Ancient model? I actually like that idea considering our treeform is only 45 seconds and we’ll be expected to boost not just heal spells but the occasional damage/cc spell we’ll possibly be able to throw out with the conceptual healing model wherein idle heal time (even in treeform) translates to occasional DPS. Please keep us abreast of how this turns out…

    • Lissanna
      Posted July 24, 2010 at 11:24 am | Permalink

      I’m expecting the Heart of the Wild talent to maybe go live with a 6% int buff, and no where close to what it is now. It may also just get turned into a % mana increase, so that it won’t give spellpower. Either way, I expect some nerfing to happen to it. At this point, I consider most values to be placeholders and such.