4.0.1 FAQ for Resto & moonkin druids

General druid Q:

Q. What’s up with Rebirth?

  • A. The cooldown for rebirth is 30 minutes, up from 10 minutes. In addition, only one druid can use it per fight (ie. it “shares a cooldown” but will usually let your second druid res someone on the next fight after you’ve dropped combat). This is not likely a bug (well, except that there are some bugs associated with it where some bosses may still let you res more than 1 person), and you can no longer rely on being able to stack druids to resurrect 3 or 4 people per boss-fight the way that some of my previous guilds have done. Use battle reses more strategically, rather than just resing the first person who dies every fight.

Resto druid Q’s

Q. What is the new haste soft-cap I should hit for resto?

  • A.  Since they changed how our HOTs scale with haste, we have a new number of haste that we want to try and achieve. This new haste soft-cap is 1015 haste, which gives you an extra tick of rejuv with full raid buffs (37.5%). More info on the haste scaling with HOTs can be found here. This number of haste won’t put your GCD at 1 second, but it is the number you should try to be above this number if possible.

Q. Is resto healing still good?

  • A. Yes, resto healers are perhaps the strongest tank healers right now, and we’re still viable raid healers, as well. While our rejuv numbers may look lower than before, all of our HOTs can now crit AND scale with haste. So, each non-crit tick may look lower, but the numbers come out about the same as before in the end (especially with the mastery bonus). All the other healing classes received similar changes/nerfs to their primary healing spells, such that their numbers aren’t likely any higher than ours. Our direct heals are also more powerful than they were before

Q. Am I supposed to just spam nourish now? It’s cast time is so long!

  • A. No, you are not supposed to spam nourish at level 80. Your rejuv should still heal for enough that it should be a viable spell to use while healing. Try to use rejuv on people who have taken damage to benefit from the instant talented heal. Regrowth replaces nourish as your direct heal. You shouldn’t need to rely on nourish in ICC. Instead, focus on using rejuv, regrowth, swiftmend (with efflorescence procs), wild growth, and your Nature’s Swiftness + Healing Touch macro combo. Keep lifebloom up on one tank. Use tranquility now, as well. You can use nourish on your tank to refresh lifebloom (if you picked up that talent).  This is more than just 1-button spamming.  It can be fun if you give it some time to adjust to the new changes.

Q. Do resto druids have mana problems?

  • A. Not at level 80. Mana doesn’t become a concern until after you start leveling up to 85.

Moonkin druid Q’s

Q. Where is my insect swarm?

Q. How much hit rating should I have?

  • A. You should be at 17% spell hit. You can reforge Spirit and hit rating into haste on gear that does not already have spirit. If you can’t reforge into spirit on that item, then either mastery or crit would be okay.

Q. What is the new moonkin haste cap?

  • A. There really isn’t one anymore. They increased the cast time of wrath enough that it’s unlikely we’ll hit any sort of haste cap. So, haste is something good that you want as much as you can get your hands on.

Q. What is this sunfire & what am I supposed to do when it comes up?

  • A. It is exactly the same as moonfire (doesn’t stack with moonfire). Use it when moonfire’s DOT wears off, or you can use it to proc the new Nature’s Grace. Spam sunfire while moving when you are in the solar eclipse (just like you would spam regular moonfire when you are moving when your solar eclipse isn’t up). Basically, treat sunfire exactly like you would treat moonfire. They put in this talent only so that your moonfire would benefit from the damage increase from solar Eclipse. They added the cute new name & graphic just for flavor.

Q. What addons should I use to track the new Eclipse power, and what should I use to replace Squawk & Awe?

Do you have any more questions about resto or moonkin in 4.0.1? Please let me know!

50 Comments

  1. Aleaf
    Posted October 13, 2010 at 7:23 pm | Permalink

    Why don’t they give us a proper new form like this? http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/936925

    • Lissanna
      Posted October 13, 2010 at 8:27 pm | Permalink

      because it’s not fruit form, lol

      • Aleaf
        Posted October 14, 2010 at 5:49 am | Permalink

        There is nothing wrong with replacing tree form with grapeling form!

        Just look at how awesome it is!

  2. Posted October 14, 2010 at 6:34 am | Permalink

    Aeronblade – that’s my tree if you need a armory reference point for my question about haste:

    I’m somewhere in the 600s with 4-pc T10set and other 264 (Hastey type gears, lol)…only one piece is sanctified.

    Even if I reforged a lot of the stats to haste….I am not going to be anywhere NEAR 1015 (not even close), please tell me this is a number reserved for level 85. Because if that’s the current goal, just how am I suppose to get to that number?

    • Huga
      Posted October 14, 2010 at 8:05 am | Permalink

      1015 haste is actually pretty easy to hit with reforging/haste gemming. My druid was sitting at about 750 haste. Reforging spirit into haste whenever possible, plus a couple +20 haste gems and reckless gems in red sockets got me most of the way. The boomkin idol is a better choice for resto druids now since it has haste on it.

      I also use the non-tier 264 chest which gives a ton of haste, and the leather frost badge belt, which also has a bit of haste.

    • Lissanna
      Posted October 14, 2010 at 9:30 am | Permalink

      The 1015 haste number is the goal for druids at 80. However, not everyone is going to be at a gear level that lets you hit that number, which is fine in the end because we’re only going to be level 80 for another month and a half or so. The only thing that happens if you don’t reach that number is that you have one less tick of rejuv (and your global cooldown is a little higher). You should try to bring your haste numbers up if possible, or you may want to invest 2 points in swift rejuv if you need your global cooldown lowered some for rejuv.

      At the very least, you should reforge some of your crit into haste to bring your haste numbers up at least some, even if you don’t hit the 1015 soft-cap.

      • Posted October 14, 2010 at 10:49 am | Permalink

        So the idea is to ditch crit for haste? Or do we have so much spirit we can afford that too? (I’m in mostly 264 gear with ~880 haste and ~1050 spirit at the moment.) My moonkin boyfriend reforged spirit to haste and he’s got almost 1200 now, but I don’t think I can ditch my spirit… and seeing as I only have two crit-only items, I’d only get 60-70 haste from those. Aren’t pure haste gems still an abomination?

        • Lissanna
          Posted October 14, 2010 at 11:13 am | Permalink

          I reforged some of my spirit & some of my crit. Not everyone is going to hit the haste soft-cap on day 2 after the new patch coming out. I had to get a haste trinket (with a useless melee proc) to hit that number for testing purposes at my gear level.

          • Posted October 14, 2010 at 11:32 am | Permalink

            I wonder if there’s a way to reach that… ever. I’m in BiS gear for the content I raid (10 man ICC) and I haven’t gotten an upgrade in months… plus all my set is focused on haste. Not that it’s terribly important, we’re on a raiding break til Cataclysm, but the cap sounds pretty insane.

          • Lissanna
            Posted October 14, 2010 at 1:37 pm | Permalink

            I got over 1015 haste in my resto set (some of which is 251 ICC 10-man gear) by reforging spirit & crit into haste whenever possible, and by picking up the badge haste trinket (where I won’t benefit from the melee attack power proc, lol). If you have a critical strike trinket or a spirit trinket, you can reforge one of those stats into 40% haste, so that’s one way to boost your haste numbers unless you’d rather just go for more int and ignore the extra rejuv tick. If your regen & spell power (from trinkets) are more important, then you won’t shoot for the haste soft-cap.

            I haven’t tried healing in that set of gear yet, since they let me go moonkin last night to enjoy my slightly overpowered insect swarm ticks at the super high levels of haste I have in my moonkin set of gear, lol.

  3. Lyna
    Posted October 14, 2010 at 10:20 am | Permalink

    I do NOT like the rebirth change. Other heal classes get cooldowns they can use, our cooldown was rebirth. Only being able to use it once per fight really takes a lot of the value away from it. There either needs to be a castable-on-others defensive cooldown or this needs to get reverted.

    The new heal style really limits mobility and I don’t like that either. Good thing I geared out my disc priest, I’m going to give her a shot in the raid tonight.

  4. Posted October 14, 2010 at 11:17 am | Permalink

    Hey, Lissanna! F.Y.I. I was under the impression that Rebirth would be restricted to one druid per raid per 30 minute lockout. However, my guild raided last night and, while our personal Rebirths were restricted to one per 30 minutes, the druids in my raid did not share a lockout. I’m not sure if this is a bug or a policy change…

    • Posted October 14, 2010 at 11:31 am | Permalink

      Fingers crossed for policy change!

    • Lissanna
      Posted October 14, 2010 at 1:43 pm | Permalink

      The reports from Tuesday night raiding said that a lot of people couldn’t res two people in the same fight (NOT 1 per half hour). The reports were that it wouldn’t let you battle-res a second person until you got out of combat after you res’d one person in the fight. Once you dropped combat and someone died on the next encounter, your second druid could still res. It may have been a bug that got hot-fixed at some point. However, my raid group didn’t try to res more than one person per fight last night. In addition, the “one per fight” rule is behaving buggy and some fights let you res more than one, while some don’t.

    • Posted October 15, 2010 at 2:49 am | Permalink

      Tested it last night. The cooldown is still there – another druid ressed someone and when I tried to do it in the same fight I got an error message.

  5. Conifer
    Posted October 14, 2010 at 1:57 pm | Permalink

    I can’t find a definitive answer on this one.

    If I cast thorns on the tank, is the threat generated by those thorns assigned to me or the tank?

    • Lissanna
      Posted October 14, 2010 at 3:02 pm | Permalink

      I never tested how thorns threat works in terms of who gets the threat. The changes make it more useful for PvP purposes than PvE at this point. I don’t think it’s worth it for PvE.

      • Conifer
        Posted October 15, 2010 at 5:09 pm | Permalink

        I disagree. I tested it out last night and even the nerfed thorns were giving big numbers.

        On one run (heroic Strath), it was 20.3% of the (WAR) tank’s damage (#1 damage source)
        On another (heroic VH), it was 15.7% of the (PAL) tank’s damage (#3 damage source)

        So if it is attributing the threat to the tank, this is a big threat generator. Especially on trash packs now that AoE threat has taken a big hit.

  6. scaresome
    Posted October 14, 2010 at 2:17 pm | Permalink

    I’m loving our new specs and talents: though I’m really clumsy right now!

    What’s up with Solar Beam?

    And … do we imagine that resto druids will be responsible for some dps as the game evolves? Might that be one reason we have a cooldown on treeform?

    • Lissanna
      Posted October 14, 2010 at 3:04 pm | Permalink

      solar beam silences people who are standing inside the big beam of light. You can root people in solar beams in PvP if you are really crafty as a moonkin. It also works some in PvE (mostly trash mobs or soloing).

      They want healers to be able to do some damage, but most healers probably won’t do damage.

  7. scotthutcheon
    Posted October 14, 2010 at 2:36 pm | Permalink

    Hey, i just brought my one and only character up to 80.

    1. Could someone please just give me a target number for spirit, spell hit (total gear hit rating and translated % chance), spell crit (total gear crit rating and the % chance), and haste rating (total gear haste rating and translated % chance).

    2. Whether penetration matters any more in pvp, whether resilience matters any more in pvp (with the completely unnecessary break rogues got for some reason).

    3. Whether the combat mana regen is permanently fixed at a certain value (no matter how i reforge around spirit or change gear the combat regen number doesn’t move it up or down AT ALL) or if it is broken or just bugged (just not showing the changes in the pane).

    Thanks guys, this would help more than anything else. Would like to know before i start wasting honor and justice points on, well, pointless gear.

    • Lissanna
      Posted October 14, 2010 at 2:58 pm | Permalink

      Graylo talks some about moonkin stats & gearing in his guide for 4.0.1
      http://graymatterwow.blogspot.com/2010/10/moonkin-guide-to-patch-401.html

      Resilience should matter for PvP, especially if the tempoary level 80 buff for the stat goes live.

      Moonkin don’t use spirit for regen anymore. You only want enough spirit & hit to reach the hit-cap and then focus the rest of your stat points into haste & crit. Spirit is now primarily a healer regen stat.

  8. scotthutcheon
    Posted October 14, 2010 at 2:45 pm | Permalink

    I’ve got a REALLY stupid question. Does leather specialization mean that we need to be wearing leather capes in our back slot (before we get the passive buff)? The flavor text says leather has to be equipped in every slot, but every back slot equipment piece in the game is cloth, so…

    • Lissanna
      Posted October 14, 2010 at 2:54 pm | Permalink

      They don’t make leather capes. So, the cloak slot doesn’t count towards leather specialization.

      • scotthutcheon
        Posted October 14, 2010 at 2:59 pm | Permalink

        I understand the logic, AH junkie (so I know that all capes are only cloth!), but the back slot is an armor slot, and the Leather Specialization text is very clear and straight forward (could there be new leather back coming out like the new glyphs?). Just want to know before i waste honor and justice points…

  9. scotthutcheon
    Posted October 14, 2010 at 3:01 pm | Permalink

    And in case everyone doesn’t know, dual speccing is only 100g now. That’s right, 100g. One week after i spent 1000g on it. I want my 900g back for gems and enchants please.

  10. Treeboi
    Posted October 14, 2010 at 3:11 pm | Permalink

    I have not had a chance to raid heal yet. My question is…

    Do we need all of this spirit?

    I have a lot more regen than I did pre-patch, and from what I’ve been reading, it seems like the amount of regen we currently have is way, way more than we need for level 80 raiding, even heroic mode ICC 25.

    I’m tempted to reforged all my gear, from spirit to crit (since I’m over 1015 haste already), considering the crap ton of regen I’m currently sporting.

    • Lissanna
      Posted October 14, 2010 at 6:55 pm | Permalink

      You can also move some of it to mastery. ;)

  11. Kanly
    Posted October 14, 2010 at 3:40 pm | Permalink

    Perhaps I misread, but the Haste discussed linked above did not actually suggest that 1015 (or any other haste number) was a cap of any sort. The speed with which HoTs heal increases as haste goes up, but it does so in a straight linear progression. 1015 was indeed a breakpoint (one of several), but not in HPS. Rather, prior to that point, Rejuv ticked 6 times in 11.5 secs and after that point it ticked 7 times in 12.5 secs. Thus, the length of the rejuv spell gets shorter and shorter as haste goes up, then suddenly gets longer. The amount of actual healing, however, goes up steadily – and would continue to go up at the same pace if we kept adding haste after 1015.

    What haste changes suddenly is how long HoTs tick before they need to be recast. That is important, but it isn’t the same thing as HPS and it isn’t anything like a cap (soft or otherwise).

    • Lissanna
      Posted October 14, 2010 at 3:58 pm | Permalink

      Well, I first called 1015 the “magic number,” but people got mad about that, lol. Making that 1015 extra rejuv tick number is nice. It won’t kill you if you don’t reach it though.

      • Kanly
        Posted October 14, 2010 at 4:16 pm | Permalink

        My only point was that the only difference between a 1010 Haste Rejuv and a 1020 Haste Rejuv is that one ticks for 11.5 secs (6 ticks) and one ticks for 12.5 secs (7 slightly differently spaced ticks). The HPS change is very incremental – and is the same as the change between 950 haste and 960 haste or between 1220 haste and 1230 haste. 10 points of additional haste appears to always grant the same amount of additional HPS – even at very high haste levels.

        • Lissanna
          Posted October 14, 2010 at 5:13 pm | Permalink

          Mmm but that extra tick means you don’t have to refresh it on that person as much. HPS is not the only number that matters. Getting the slightly longer duration and extra tick means that you don’t have to refresh it as often, and you have more rejuvs up on more people to make it easier to swiftmend them, or benefit from the mastery when you cast a wild growth or regrowth or something else on the person.

  12. Kanly
    Posted October 14, 2010 at 3:46 pm | Permalink

    Do you need to actually cast Sunfire if you have the Sunfire talent? You can just hit Moonfire (and leave that on your bars and macros) and it seems to just change into Sunfire. Our rotation has gotten very situational and this seems a way to make it simpler.

    • Conghaile
      Posted October 14, 2010 at 8:40 pm | Permalink

      Yes, you do have to cast it. The DoT on the target does not morph into Sunfire when you hit Solar Eclipse. The arcane damage will continue to tick unbuffed until you apply Sunfire, at which point it is overwritten.

  13. Kanly
    Posted October 14, 2010 at 3:59 pm | Permalink

    Have you found that you can do pretty impressive DPS simply spamming instants (and moving)? In a 25M VOA, I was at the top of the DPS meters just running around casting this sequence:

    Mark of the Wild (to proc Clearcasting and activate the 15% T10 2 pc buff), Insect Swarm, Moonfire, Moonfire, Moonfire, Moonfire, Moonfire, and then start over. Whenever Shooting Stars turns Starsurge into an instant, you cast that instead. Cast Starfall and Treeants on CD. I also started the fight stacking three Fairie Fires on the Boss (still not sure what stacking it does).

    I am not sure what exactly happens, but Lunar Shower is a big buff to Moonfire and, for some reason, Clearcasting procs over and over (sometimes on 5 or 6 consecutive casts). I never stood still, I never cast either Wrath or Starfire, and I paid no attention to the Eclipse status (though I suspect this would eventually become significant).

    I know you run a Boomie a lot – have any thoughts?

    • Elemo
      Posted October 14, 2010 at 4:30 pm | Permalink

      I thought this couldn’t possibly be right, but I just tried it out on the heroic boss dummy and was managing a little over 7000dps by spamming Sunfire and running around, while keeping insect swarm up and using Starsurge during a Solar Eclipse. I didn’t use Treants or Starfall. Now I want to see what it does in a raid!

      • Lissanna
        Posted October 14, 2010 at 7:14 pm | Permalink

        Insect swarm hits a little harder than it should because of how well our DOTs & HOTs scale with haste & crit at level 80.

    • Conghaile
      Posted October 14, 2010 at 8:53 pm | Permalink

      This is currently a somewhat viable rotation, but not quite as strong as the normal switching back and forth. Add in use of Starfall on coolodown and replace Glyph of Wrath with Glyph of Starsurge to maximize Starfall usage and you’ll be doing pretty high damage. A way to maximize it might be to reforge crit into mastery rating, so that the Eclipse buff to Sunfire and Insect Swarm is increased, but it’s unclear as it would take some simulation to determine the stat values.

      Stacking faerie fire increases the armor debuff applied. One stack is 4%, making 3 stacks 12%. If you run with a feral or warrior tank, there is no need to cast it as the tanks are stacking armor debuffs as part of their rotation anyway (Faerie Fire Feral and Devastate, respectively). Cat druids can also apply the debuff, so be sure to coordinate with your raid before wasting your 3 to 4 seconds! All previous benefits of the spell (raid +hit and self +crit) are gone.

  14. mushu
    Posted October 14, 2010 at 4:11 pm | Permalink

    Any way you could print a screenshot of the talent trees you recommend in your resto guide? The wowtal site changes its version number which appears to be part of the linked talent URL and as such that means your old talent links no longer work. If you publish an actual ss of the trees then it will always be visible! :)

    • Lissanna
      Posted October 14, 2010 at 4:54 pm | Permalink

      yes, at some point… When I have time. ;)

  15. Posted October 15, 2010 at 6:40 am | Permalink

    Easiest way to think of the current bres mechanics is to liken it to a potion. Except, it’s a potion that all druids in the raid just drunk at once. :P

    It is a bit different though, namely, The druid who cast the bres gets a full 30 minute timer, which does start immediately, it doesn’t wait until after combat to start counting down.

    Further, the other druids in the raid don’t get a timer at all, but their ability to use bres is greyed (well, dimmed) out for the duration of the combat session. Soon as combat is over, their bres goes back to active again, while yours will still be counting down.

    As for haste, I’m not sure if this has even been mathed out yet, but would you reccomend going for the haste cap above and beyond mastery?

    So far, reforging all spirit to Mastery I’ve got about an 18% symbiosis bonus, with RJ ticks still running into a high chance of being overwritten in current content, I can’t help but to wonder if the current bonus would be better than an additional tick.

    • Lissanna
      Posted October 15, 2010 at 9:32 am | Permalink

      If you are tank healing, mastery is probably worth it. If you are raid healing, whether mastery is good for you or not at 80 is a personal playstyle decision. I went with more haste, but I’ve been primarily DPS in raids this week since moonkin DPS was so high, they couldn’t “sacrifice” my DPS for more healing. I think I’ll get to heal more now that the moonkin DPS nerf went through…

  16. Ohken
    Posted October 15, 2010 at 9:45 am | Permalink

    The soft haste cap is really still 50%, not 37.5%. It’s true that 37.5% gets a new tick on rejuv. However, that extra tick is the least of haste’s many benefits! Consider:

    1. Regrowth is now our top-up spell, and haste speeds it up until a cap of 50% where it has a 1.0-second cast. Faster regrowths on a tank mean it has a better chance of landing before the next melee swing. Faster regrowths around the raid mean we can top up more people after a decimate before they die.

    2. If you want to throw up a mini-rejuv blanket before a damage spike, more haste means you can put it up on the max number of targets in a shorter period of time, leaving you more time to spend on other healing needs. This effect applies up until you have 50% haste and your GCD gets down to 1.0 seconds.

    3. Healing touch hits like a truck now. I’m seeing it land at twice a regrowth and three times a nourish. However, the cast speed is just sluggish enough that it’s difficult to use well. Getting it’s 2-second cast time lower makes it much easier to use. Haste is valuable for this purpose until healing touch is at 1.0 seconds, somewhere around 120%.

    4. Rejuv and regrowth have better throughput when hasted, which is especially relevant for tank healing. This is useful up until stupid levels of haste. Even 100% is not the limit.

    In short the right way to think about haste capping is that it’s extremely valuable up through 50%, and valuable after that to a lesser degree. Before 50%, stack intellect if you have mana problems, or haste if you don’t.

    • Lissanna
      Posted October 15, 2010 at 9:49 am | Permalink

      You aren’t going to reach 50%, so the 37.5% is the easiest achievable “goal” to reach, since we’ve been easily able to reach the actual haste-caps before.The average person just wants a number to try and achieve.

      • Ohken
        Posted October 15, 2010 at 8:13 pm | Permalink

        Yes, people are inventing a haste cap because they are used to it. In 4.0, though, there doesn’t seem to be a meaningful haste cap that people can actually reach. They should get all they can, just like with spell power or mana.

  17. Ardaosta
    Posted October 19, 2010 at 12:33 am | Permalink

    Anyone else have odd issues with Swiftmend in dungeons? It activates every sing time it is off cooldown when I HoT a char out of an instance, but in three runs in a row in different instances now, it has been almost random in its casting availability. Despite having HoT’s on 3-5 players, Swiftmend stays greyed out and seems to activate completely randomly.

    Am I missing something?

    I do use VuhDo, though I also tried just clicking the actual cast buttons on the HoT’s to try and sidestep that possible issue… same problem though.

    None of the other trees I have talked to have this problem, but I can’t seem to locate the source.

    Help?

    • Reima
      Posted October 19, 2010 at 10:03 pm | Permalink

      I’m assuming you have Rejuv and Regrowth on tha tank? And you have your target on the tank at all times, and not using addons like Grid/Clique or Healbot?

    • Lissanna
      Posted October 19, 2010 at 11:45 pm | Permalink

      The icon will light up with the flashing sparkles even when it is still on cooldown, which can be somewhat confusing. You’ll need to watch the cooldown more carefully to see if it’s ready to be cast again or not. It may “light up” even when you have 10 seconds left on the cooldown.

      The brighter color just means there is a HOT on the target that you currently have targeted. So, if you have a HOT on person A, but you are targeting person B, it shouldn’t light up (even when it comes off cooldown) because there isn’t a HOT on person B.

  18. Reima
    Posted October 19, 2010 at 1:50 am | Permalink

    I got a question about rebirth: was there a blue post informing us of this change? It’s not in the patch notes, it’s not in the beta builds, and I can’t find a single blue post after hours of searching. I would very much appreciate if someone can link me a blue post to confirm this change was intended.

  19. Kael
    Posted October 22, 2010 at 3:34 pm | Permalink

    So I know Spell Penetration has always been a PvP gem you wanted. but i was wondering would there be any benefits to using it now post patch for PvE boss fights? and pre patch i noticed using mikscrollingbattletext that a portion of my spells got resisted in boss fights, and yes i was hit capped, so im just curious to see if the spell pen would help along with intelect and haste.