Are druids raid-viable at level 85? Yes, they are!

So, I tried out a couple raids with my 85 premade on the beta server. I’ve been running with Beta Max Alliance (not to be confused with the horde beta max guild). While I want to do a full report, I’m too busy with life to spend the couple hours on a blog post that is really needed.

So, this is a quick Tuesday update to let you know that druids in the raid groups I’ve been in & talked to seem to be doing okay. We have both feral & moonkin able to reach the level of DPS as other classes. Resto healers are strong enough to get the job done, and feral tanks are doing good, too.

For the logs from raid beta testing -I didn’t post them up, keep in mind that WoL is still pretty buggy, you can’t look at individual fights, people who die early a lot will have lower numbers. We sometimes had people switch roles to try out a different combination of tanks/healers/DPS. So, the in-game pictures I have will tell more about how a few of us performed on more individual bosses.

Here are the world of log reports from Sunday’s raids (Wyrmbreaker and Tron Council).  Also, these include both trash & bosses. I have screenshots of my in-game damage meter reports for boss attempts that I can post up later, but that should give you data to get you started.

From Monday’s raids, they have logs up, too. I’m not sure which bosses this log is from (probably Chimeron?). It got split in two reports, so here’s the second half (probably Theralion and Valiona).

At the end of the night, we split up into 10-man groups due to people leaving and such.

Remember that this is a small sample size of data from limited testing, and that mostly it consists of wiping on the same bosses over & over again because they are “learning” and bug testing nights with a group that is semi-PUG-ish. Also, yes, I am spending that much time spamming rejuv around the raid (especially the 2nd day).  All the boss encounters we’ve come across have been heavy AOE damage encounters where you are frantically trying to keep alive people standing in fires that they should be moving out of, where everyone is learning both class mechanics and boss encounters. So, please don’t give too much credit to the logs, as the data isn’t necessarily 100% accurate, and it’s just one group of people. In terms of my healing on individual boss fights, I was mostly able to keep up with the paladin healing. I think the priest’s absorbs are being over-estimated by some of the logs, too, but I’m not sure why.

I have to run off to campus soon, so this is the best I can do for today. Even if you look at the logs, please remember I’m only posting up one set of data from one guild, and it’s not a representative sample of the gaming community as a whole.

Remember… don’t panic!

15 Comments

  1. Posted October 19, 2010 at 9:28 am | Permalink

    Do you know if the “Other” listed under the paladin’s is their mastery absorb being shown as effective healing similar to PW:S? If so that is a rather impressive output.

    • Lissanna
      Posted October 19, 2010 at 9:34 am | Permalink

      I honestly have no idea. Skada wasn’t counting paladin absorbs last night at all, so I have nothing to compare it to.

  2. Aleaf
    Posted October 19, 2010 at 9:30 am | Permalink

    This reminds me of TBC when we didn’t have any aoe heal to speak of, and just spammed lifebloom on everyone when raid healing. Except it will Rejuv instead

    • Lissanna
      Posted October 19, 2010 at 9:36 am | Permalink

      The first night, I didn’t use as much rejuv around the raid – I did more tank healing. However, the tanks took almost no damage last night, so pretty much everything was bursty AOE healing spam.

      I don’t have logs from the 10-man run because we get split up on 3 platforms so far from eachother that it breaks all the damage meter mods.

  3. Rivellana
    Posted October 19, 2010 at 11:03 am | Permalink

    Looking at the raid logs you posted from beta tells me that the new blue post referring to holy paladins is right on. Seeing that each of the holy paladins in the beta raids from these logs did 50-60% of their healing with holy radiance and barely touched any other spells tells me that it’s overpowered and will be nerfed. Which should leave a little bit more to heal for resto druids, holy priests, and resto shamans I would think. I’m kind of wondering about the discipline priest absorbs because it looks like he’s still spamming his sheilds which I was under the impression was something that Blizzard didn’t want disc priests doing anymore and was going to make mana restrictive.

    • Lissanna
      Posted October 19, 2010 at 4:20 pm | Permalink

      The priest is probably spamming shields as much as I’m spamming rejuv. The priest actually went Holy at some point yesterday, but I don’t have separate logs for that spec switch.

  4. Tralia
    Posted October 19, 2010 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

    I was never worried about it being viable, they aren’t going to let any healing spec be non-viable. The thing is though is it still fun, and thats something you can’t really get from someone elses opinion or meters. We shall see I suppose.

    • Lissanna
      Posted October 19, 2010 at 4:25 pm | Permalink

      It’s still good to show that we’re holding up okay in a Beta raid testing environment. Fun isn’t something I can measure in beta testing, since most of the time, we’re trying to figure out strategies without boss mods to tell us when to move, with fewer mods than we’d run on the Live server, and a semi-organized PUG environment where I only know a handful of people in the run. Healing feels like a mix of WotLK rejuv-spam in a Burning Crusade healing environment (ie. people have larger health pools). They haven’t changed healing very dramatically, honestly. There is still a ton of AOE spam, and I was right that Blizzard needed to balance AOE healing rotations, since very few people will be doing purely single-target healing in a raid environment in Cata.

  5. Chezza
    Posted October 19, 2010 at 8:06 pm | Permalink

    Watching the news, so the title and the last line made me think of this: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=9879698943&postId=99554501728&sid=1

    “My fellow Druids,

    I am grateful to have the opportunity to address you all, from those of you in Sunwell and S4 gear, to the newest level 1.

    I am, as you may or may not know, the son of a young night elf from Teldrassil, and a young woman from Goldshire. My family was not well off, nor well known, but we shared a belief that in the World of Warcraft, their son could achieve whatever he put his mind to. That promise is what has set this land apart from any other, that we could each achieve our individual dreams, but still come together as one roleplaying family.

    That is why I post here tonight–because for the last four years, when that promise was in jeopardy, ordinary druids found the courage to keep it alive.

    We meet at one of those defining moment–a moment when PvP is not viable to three of the four specs we recently learned we have, when those same specs suffer equally in PvE, and when the balance of the entire land is in jeopardy once more.

    More druids are becoming disenfranchised, more are struggling to keep up with other tanks, and more are watching their DPS plummet. We look forward to gear that is not itemized properly, talents that are lackluster or broken, and specs that are out of reach.

    Blizzard’s failure to respond according to our needs is a direct result of their broken understanding of the Druid class.

    Druids, we are better than these last four years. We are a better class than this. We deserve better. Better than watching feral’s single best stat lose much of its power, to be replaced by strength that does not appear on our gear. Better than deep feral and balance talents that are advertised as buffs, but are in actuality nerfs.

    You can put lipstick on a pig, but it’s still a pig.

    Today, I say to the Druids of Azeroth, to the bears and cats, boomkins and trees across this great land, enough! This moment, this phase of development, is our chance to keep, in the expansion, the promise alive. We are here because we love this game and this class too much to let the next year look like the last four.

    Other classes may say we are suffering from a mental recession of our abilities, that we need “more pew pew less QQ,” or that we have become a class of whiners. A class of whiners? Tell that to the beta testers who, despite the mounting evidence that our class is going to be taking the short bus to Northrend, continue testing as hard as ever, knowing that there are Druids out there who depend on their data for any hope of class improvements. Tell that to the theorycrafters who endure the forums every day, desperately brainstorming fixes and buffs. These are not whiners. They work hard, and they give back, and they keep going without complaint. These are the Druids I know.

    Now, I don’t believe that Blizzard doesn’t care what’s going on in the lives of Druids, I just think they don’t know. Why else would they define Eclipse as being the saving grace of the balance tree? Why else would they lower the cooldown on Berserk, only to remove its usefulness for PvP?

    It’s not because Blizzard doesn’t care, it’s because Blizzard doesn’t get it. For the past four years, they have subscribed to that old discredited Everquest philosophy to give more and more to the classes with the most, and hope that prosperity trickles down to everyone else.

    It’s time for them to own their failure. It’s time for us to change the World of Warcraft.

    We Druids have a very different measure of what constitutes progress to this class. We measure progress by how well we scale comparatively to other classes in the role that we’re in. We measure progress by how well our gear is suited to our use for it. We measure progress by how unique and useful our talents are, and whether our forms are able to keep up with the level of graphics in the rest of the game.

    We measure the strength of this game not by how many hardcore guilds have Sunwell on farm, but by whether or not someone can take a risk and try a new spec and succeed. Or whether the Druid PvPer can take a day off to take care of her sick child without losing her ratings. A reward system that honors the dignity of work–that time spent equals gear received.

    I think about my dad, who slept just four hours a night so he could grind out his High Warlord status. I think about my mom, who once turned to Skinning and Herbalism so my sister and I would have enough money to buy spells. I think about my grandmother, who worked her way up from vanilla balance to Boomkin, after years of being passed over for raid spots because she was an offspec. She’s the one who taught me about hard work.

    Blizzard cannot solve all of our problems. But what it should do is that which we cannot do for ourselves. Protect us from obsolescence. Provide every spec with a decent chance to succeed in whatever it is we choose to do. Blizzard should work for us, not against us. They should help us, not hurt us. They should insure opportunity, not just for those of a certain class or spec, but for every player who’s willing to work. That’s the promise of World of Warcraft.

    Let me spell out for you exactly what changes we need.

    We need feral and balance arena viability. We need talents for these specs that shore up our weaknesses and augment our strengths, rather than give us a net DPS decrease as is the case for balance, and a 51 point talent that has no PvP functionality as is the case for feral. We need spell crit on balance gear and strength on feral gear. We need increased avoidance for bear form, and cat form needs to be dishing out competitive DPS and continue to do so through tier ten.

    I will not settle for a World of Warcraft where some druids or some classes don’t have the same chances as others.

    We are the class of Alamo. We are the class of Deep. We are here to restore that legacy.

    Change doesn’t come FROM Blizzard, change comes TO Blizzard. In the form of our feedback and our ideas. So let’s be heard. We have a lot of work to do.

    I am Bearack Obearma and I approve this message.”

    • Chezza
      Posted October 19, 2010 at 8:13 pm | Permalink

      I almost don’t care. I’m playing to have fun, and I remember before Burning Crusade when Druid players had to work harder for the same recognition. We’ll do just fine :)

      • Lissanna
        Posted October 19, 2010 at 8:53 pm | Permalink

        Yeah, but I needed to post the logs up and my snappy title is better than “here’s some WoL reports”

        • Chezza
          Posted October 20, 2010 at 8:39 pm | Permalink

          Exactly.
          “We are the class of Alamo. We are the class of Deep.” Yes We Can :)

  6. Hiraun
    Posted October 20, 2010 at 7:57 am | Permalink

    WoL is blocked here so I cannot check but I am curious about Tranquility at level 85. I recently had my first raid since the patch (ICC-10 normal with Lady Deathwhisper and Saurfang on heroic). It heals lots and lots, and when I use it it comes up as #3 or #4 most used heal. At least on level 80 it feels unbalanced considering it is usually up again for the boss.

    • Lissanna
      Posted October 20, 2010 at 8:51 am | Permalink

      I’m not over-using it at 85.

  7. Rivellana
    Posted October 20, 2010 at 12:04 pm | Permalink

    I do want to thank you for posting these beta logs though. After looking at logs of raids I’ve done the past two weeks since the patch the conclusions I’ve come to for 80s in the pre-Cata evironment is that druids are still fun to play and even seem a bit OP, disc priests are still extremely OP, however holy paladins at 80 look like they got kicked in the face, and holy priests would be good if they weren’t struggling with mana so badly. I don’t have a resto shaman in raids to see how they’re holding up at 80. I have a healer of each class, but my resto druid is my main so even though I’ve been sad to see the state of holy paladins at 80 I have to say I was a bit worried to see them owning face at 85 with holy raidiance (until Bliz saw that too and said they’re for sure nerfing it).

    My druid was my main as a boomkin back in BC though when boomkins were less than desirable, so I’ll stick with my druid as my main as resto no matter how they end up holding up at 85. I’m just glad to see these logs posted so we have the knowledge that they’re still doing ok. :)