Druid raid healing design problem Redux

So, during Beta, I found a huge & obvious problem with the restoration druid design in Cata – namely that HOTs don’t make good triage tools on their own, and that druids completely lack direct multi-target heals. I posted multiple times about druids’ weakness in terms of their AOE healing toolset. However, there WAS a lot of progress (in the form of 2 steps forward, 1 step back) since my inital posting around August. We started raid healing in Beta with a good toolset for normal-mode raids (where we could spam rejuv, Wildgrowth, & swiftmend/efforescence – with effloresence not being target-limited). By the time Cata went live, Rejuv & efflorescence had been reduced in efficiency/effectiveness, and thus swung us back into the “danger zone” at the high end of raiding in Cataclysm (ie. heroic-level raids where everyone is in T11 gear).

Fortunately for single-target healing, druids have a few single-target direct heals, and an overall good toolset for single-target healing (except for regrowth’s healing numbers being low).  Our single-target healing toolset makes a nice healing design for tank healing where you can have single-target direct heals heals blended with HOTs. Unfortunately, we still get outshined in tank healing by paladins’ beacon of light, since it allows paladins to heal more than one tank at a time (and we can’t LB-roll on 2 tanks anymore). In 10 and 25-man raids, the value of a healer comes down to how well they can heal multiple people at a time, which is something that is really hit-or-miss for druids. This is NOT a problem with healing 5-man heroics – at the lower gear levels, druids are at least equivalent to other healers in terms of being able to heal 5-mans (especially since we take an early lead in mana efficiency/regen). There also doesn’t seem to be a problem with intro-level normal-mode raids

There was a point where Blizzard had buffed druid’s mana regen and had reduced rejuv’s mana cost (along with Efflorscence being crazy powerful) that we looked like we would come out okay for raiding. However, BOTH our regen & efflorescence’s healing have been nerfed since my initial raid testing, and the current Live raiding is showing that the AOE weakness I originally predicted has started to come true today. As Xaar of Paragon points out, at the higher end of cutting-edge, heroic-level, raiding in Cataclysm: “The raid healing issue is mainly a problem of available tools,” which is exactly what I predicted back in August (before even starting raid testing in the first place). I’ve been tracking druid development for so long that I’m absolutely not shocked by Xaar of Paragon’s forum post about druid raid healing for Heroic 10/25 content in Cata.

The problem with druid Heroic 10/25 Raid healing: Druids lack a full AOE healing toolset, and Blizzard didn’t care enough about balancing AOE healing toolsets for Cataclysm.

I thought it was time to return to this subject since, as Jarre of Rank 4 Healing Touch points out with math to support it, since we run a high risk of not being as desirable for high-end Heroic-level 10/25-man raids where BURST AOE healing is more desirable than HOT AOE healing. The reason R4HT and Xaar are concerned is really because we have NO tools to deal with the spiky large burst AOE that is happening in Heroic-level raid encounters (which is a problem that only druids in guilds like Paragon are having to deal with now, but unless Blizzard does something, this is going to become a bigger problem with time).

Efflorescence, Wild Growth & rejuv are all HOTs that can’t handle spike “triage”-style damage in the new Cataclysm healing paradigm. It seems to not be as bad for normal-mode raid dungeons at the current tier (where druid healing still shines), but Blizzard’s reluctance to give resto druids a direct AOE healing tool (and not wanting us to rejuv/WG spam) pretty much leaves us without a real AOE healing toolset, and we’ve been on a really brutal roller-coaster ride through all of WotLK & the beta for Cataclysm where they nerf our HOTs and then have to re-buff them so we’ll stay effective, and then nerf them in hopes we will find a different strategy than our HOT spam (HINT: there is no alternative to HOT spam for AOE healing because we never got tools to do otherwise).

While we can look good on paper in terms of HPS, and can “top meters” sometimes – we lack the tools to actually prevent deaths. If two people are low on health and about to die, then a shaman or priest healer will likely save them both, and a druid healer will cause one to die. So, the choice then becomes obvious to leave the druid behind if their numbers don’t keep up with the direct AOE healers. Add a lack of mitigation cooldowns, or other tools to sweeten the deal, and being the HOT AOE healer ends up being a crappy & expendable job.

The problem is NOT about being able to look good on HPS meters. The problem is with actually having tools to prevent deaths. HOTs look good on meters, but HOTs don’t save lives – they just top people off or provide a bumper so that someone else can come around to actually do real healing to the target.

How to fix the AOE healing problem: While Xaar suggested reducing the cooldown on Wild Growth, I’d argue that making WG more spam-able isn’t a fix to the problem – since WG is still a HOT. This is basically extending the first option I presented Blizzard with in August (which was reducing WG & rejuv’s mana cost, along with making Efflorescence not be tied to regrowth – which they did). So, just making WG better doesn’t fix the problem alone. In the end, Blizzard doesn’t want resto druids to heal by just spamming around WG & Rejuv. So, they need to give us an actual AOE healing tool to add to the rotation (and Swiftmend/Efflorescence isn’t enough now that they’ve re-balanced down Efflorescence’s healing by so much, combined with swiftmend’s moderately high cooldown that prevents spamming it). It’s past the time for “easy” fixes, and time to go with actually fixing resto druids to be viable AOE healers in Cataclysm the RIGHT way – by giving us the tools we need to be successful in Cataclysm. Druids aren’t good when HOTs aren’t good, and right now – HOTs aren’t good for AOE healing in heroic-level raids, and this problem is likely going to get worse & worse as we progress to future tiers of raiding.

What we need is a direct AOE healing tool, and I offered a great solution to that problem months ago:

“The most fun solution, however, would be to make a talent in the restoration tree that allowed our new Wild Mushroom spells to heal the people standing in that 10 yard radius when the Mushrooms are Detonated.”

So, Blizzard, I’m going to settle on… I told you so, and it’s time for Healing Shrooms (OR give us a real direct AOE heal ability). You could make healing shrooms a talent by removing Malfurion’s Gift from our talent tree and replacing it with an effect that reduced/removed Shroom’s damage done and replaced that damage with a heal of whatever value seems balanced. They could also make Efflorescence actually give our heals the buff from our mastery ability, so that our HOT & direct heal AOEs had better interplay for making mastery a worthwhile stat for us.

A talented healing shrooms in place of Malfurion’s Gift would solve 3 problems with a single change:

  • A) removing Malfurion’s Gift fixes the problem GC brought up about OOC possibly saving resto druids too much mana,
  • B) adding in healing shrooms fixes the problem of druids’ lack of AOE healing tools (without having to introduce a “smart” AOE heal or give us a whole new spell), and
  • C) “healing” shrooms makes our wild mushrooms more desirable and the spell would be used more often (even if it’s not by moonkin).

72 Comments

  1. Kaelik
    Posted December 30, 2010 at 7:59 pm | Permalink

    I see this problem as a combination of two events. Blizzard horribly broke the druid HOT model of healing, and Blizzard didn’t give druids any other tools to work with. The sad part is that Cataclysm was supposed to introduce a new style of healing that should have been PERFECT for druids…damage that didn’t need to be instantly healed. Druids should have been very good at healing a raid with a lot of damage to raid members that could be healed up slowly…exactly what HOTs are designed for. Except by making HOTs so punishingly expensive, and giving druids no other tools to raid heal, our utility has dropped quite a bit.

    • Lissanna
      Posted December 30, 2010 at 8:33 pm | Permalink

      Yup, the problem with our HOTs is that our HOTs are either super OP, or not enough to do the job. There is really no middle ground where HOTs hit the right spot on their own.

  2. Zy
    Posted December 30, 2010 at 9:08 pm | Permalink

    The burst damage weakness is one I called a long, long time ago and for heaven’s sake I hope Blizz finally fixes it.

    I have to say that Druids at least have shamans beat when it comes to cooldowns. Tranquility and Tree form have both been very handy in our raids, our resto druid got to use tree form three times on our Magmaw kill last night. Nature’s Swiftness needs to be reworked for both restos very badly, I’ve seen far to many folks not bother to take the talent anymore and I can’t blame them a bit.

  3. Posted December 30, 2010 at 10:16 pm | Permalink

    Bursty group healing is something I commented on immediately upon starting 5mans. Then I thought perhaps I was just having problems adjusting to the new style – but later I saw that my initial feelings were correct. We just don’t have any burst group healing tools, and when standing next to someone who does, we can’t compete. It’s not about “winning” of course, but why bring someone without burst healing?

    I wasn’t sold on the healing mushrooms originally, but now I can see that they would be valuable for predictable burst times.

    HoTs are wonderful, I love them, but I’m seeing a big disconnect between what we were told pre-Cataclysm (about HoTs being more valuable because people would sit at low health) and what we’re experiencing in raids. Our HoTs take too long to put down and to heal.

    I don’t know how best to balance it, but I really feel we need some burst. Not to be OP or to “win”, but to be seen as equally attractive for raiding as the other classes.

    • Lissanna
      Posted December 30, 2010 at 10:23 pm | Permalink

      Yes, and shrooms works out to being somewhat restrictive in terms of how we get burst direct healing, which would really be what makes them balanced, lol. I don’t want to be OP, I just want tools (where if they are used “smart” make us viable).

  4. Posted December 30, 2010 at 11:12 pm | Permalink

    It sounds like the healing mushrooms may be a viable option since right now they are not seeing much use because of the complex nature of the spell. Maybe another option would be to simply make WG a direct AoE heal instead of a HoT, perhaps increasing the cooldown? We definitely need something though because that is the one area that our tools are lacking.

  5. jurik
    Posted December 31, 2010 at 12:57 am | Permalink

    You don’t have to get into heroic modes to feel the burn of no front-loaded heals. Just try to heal Chimaeron: when he levels the raid with massacre and you have about 8 seconds to regain 28k+ on everyone, what does a druid bring? Wild growth on 6 people, swiftmend+efflo for another 400 hps on everyone…then what? Sit there and single-cast HT? Tree form and spam LB around?

  6. Posted December 31, 2010 at 2:27 am | Permalink

    I think that one of the biggest problems is one that has been mentioned quite a lot and that is that our HoT’s require time (to much in some cases) to be useful. In raids I currently use WG as a buffer (with symbiosis) for NR/HT or even RJ. And also the limitation on AE heals, both of them (Effy & WG) are on a decent cooldown, so if you used both you just have to cast or hit rejuv’s (mana mana…) while hoping everything sticks.

    Another problem I see if with Efflorescense, the whole healing circle thing is a nice idea but that fact that it proc’s rather than aiming the spell like the holy priest’s circle can sometimes be problematic. Effy helps a lot in AE fights (I’ve only downed magmaw on normal but I found Effy to be at 10% or slighly less, which is a big part of my overall healing) where you have to stack in groups. But on the Omni-thing I rarely get any use out of it.

    The healing shrooms sounds nice but if they would work like the dps version then they could end up being to complicated to use or at least to get the most benefit out of them.

    I haven’t raided enough to really say that we need fixing, but I haven’t read much positive stories which troubles me and my guild. Since I’m in a 10man guild with only 13 active members it’s a bit scary if you hear that one class might not be able to pull his weight

    • Lissanna
      Posted December 31, 2010 at 10:06 am | Permalink

      At this point, you should be fine for normal-mode raids, and you can always be assigned to tank healing (where you do some splash WG/Efflorescence healing on the raid to help out).

    • Syd
      Posted January 2, 2011 at 3:06 am | Permalink

      I read many websites for advice on Druid healing to include this one. I agree on most advice on them but then there are some concepts that I don’t. I tend to mold my character after deciding what works best for me.

      I am though very disappointed on your suggestion of using mushrooms. The few raid fights I have been in so far require alot of movement. I can’t imagine taking the time to think about where to place mushrooms and then detonating them for an AOE heal. What made druids unique was the instant cast spells on the move. That, I’m afraid, is a thing of the past. But what I am really shocked the most about is your suggestion on replacing Malfurion’s Gift. Omgosh, this is my saving grace for not being oom mid fight. If you are not using this to it’s full advantage, how do you possibly maintain a mana pool???
      We need something like CoH. Instant and multiple targets.

  7. Verdus
    Posted December 31, 2010 at 4:03 am | Permalink

    As much as I’d like to have a burst AOE heal, I don’t want it to come at the expense of Malfurion’s Gift. That talent is about the only thing keeping five-man healing from driving me insane. Unless things have completely gone to hell, I spend the vast majority of my time just spamming Nourish on the tank. Those OOC procs actually give me something to do that isn’t mind-numbing.

  8. Posted December 31, 2010 at 8:27 am | Permalink

    What has always stricken me has been how very… bare the resto toolset is compared to other healers. An addition of an actual spell or two is in order but unfortunately, Blizzard doesn’t seem to agree — at all.

  9. Posted December 31, 2010 at 9:41 am | Permalink

    Great post Liss. But I’m a bit disappointed to see that you’ve limited the druid healing issues to just higher end content, when it really does trickle down to lowerend content as well. Not so much 5-man heroics, but entry-level raid content, as I learned in our Conclave attempt this week where if I wasn’t just tank healing during the swap between Anshal and Nezir, I was relegated to Rohash duties because the raid and the group preferred the Pally and Holy Priest healers.

    You know, the druid community as a whole AND the blues never seem to quite get what I’ve been saying for TWO YEARS now…HoT healing is NOT about healing damage in the way a Holy Priest or Pally can. Yes, it gives HP back, but HoT healing is about DAMAGE MITIGATION.

    If the blues actually realized this, they’d be better able to give us the tools we need to be on par with other healers. I mean, even a Disc priest, the primary damage mitigation class, has Holy priest tools to use that enhance their own mitigation procs (Prayer of Healing + Divine Aegis, for example). Essentially, HoTs are actively doing what bubbles passively do in that instead of preventing damage outright, HoTs cancel out some of that damage as it’s being taken, keeping in mind that HoTs never heal outright. Hence: damage mitigation.

    That said, we need to realize we’ve found ourselves in the same position Disc Priests were in at the beginning of Wrath. It took the better part of two years to finally tweak them to make them highly viable and desirable for group/raid healing (while Druid healing rocked on Lich King, Disc Priests really shined on that fight, especially for defiles).

    These are the two main problems I see that have been pointed out:

    1. HoTs are too weak. Where a direct heal gives back a chunk of HP from a hit, almost as if the hit didn’t even happen. With HoTs, they act as a mitigator of that damage progressively canceling out the damage, but more damage is still incoming. It’s not like the boss/mob is going to stop attacking your tank/raiders to let your HoT run its course and heal back that damage. So while our direct heals become enhanced by those damage mitigating HoTs already on our heal targets via mastery and other such talents, our group heals remain too expensive and ineffective for damage AOE intensive fights, or just fights where people other than your tank are taking unavoidable damage (I point out unavoidable damage only because we all know there’s lots of places not to stand to take damage, but rather those times where the group has to take down adds that cannot be held by the tank…like Anshal’s adds in Conclave, for example).

    2. Which brings me to my next point. Mana cost and efficiency. This topic has been beaten down to a pulp but it’s still a relevant point to acknowledge when discussing the healing efficiency of HoTs, and even more so when we discuss HoTs as group-healing tools. I mean, yes, Rejuv has the potential to heal 18K which on paper can justify its 4-5K mana cost, but where a direct heal has given back health from damage being taken, heals like Rejuv have to work while damage continues to be taken. That to me says that not only is it 96% useless (with 2% being used for the swiftmend/efflorescence and 2% being used for its aid with the mastery talent), but they’ve essentially rendered pointless one of our greatest group healing tools. The same could be said for Wildgrowth. I’m not even talking about spamming them all the time like we did in Wrath, but definitely being able to throw them around during AOE bits would be nice if it didn’t decimate our mana. No, in order to justify the mana cost, HoTs just need to hit harder, period.

    I don’t know, am I crazy for thinking these things? We’re closing in our first full month, and we’re still struggling in a way we weren’t in LK in the beginning, middle, or end.

    • Lissanna
      Posted December 31, 2010 at 10:08 am | Permalink

      I limited my focus to higher-end healing because the devs seem to think we’re fine, and I wanted to focus in on the areas that the two posts I was piggy-backing on set their focus.

      Also, what you are talking about is why I’m saying it’s not a problem with how high we get on meters, but about how useful that healing actually is. I’m not sure that our HOT healing is worth as much as direct healing is in the current content.

      • Posted December 31, 2010 at 10:51 am | Permalink

        And that’s just the difference between you and I, I suppose. Without sounding flippant, which I totally wouldn’t try to sound to someone I deeply respect, I respectfully would like to say that where you’re “not sure” our HoT healing is worth it, I’m absolutely POSITIVE our HoT healing is NOT worth it. That lack of certainty is often what keeps the blues from actually addressing problems.

        Blue: “Well, we’re not sure right now, we’re just in a wait and see mode, and then we’ll see address it later.”

        Meanwhile, druids get laughed at in Pugs as healers and find solace only in their own guild groups and raid groups because at least the guild understands that while things might be under par now, they’ll get better…eventually. Because I’ve seen this even in a 5-man heroic where we weren’t even wiping! “Seriously, dude, I’ve kept you alive, our boss is dead and you’re laughing at my heals?” Now, in no way am I screaming “omg! bluez! i suck, fix me pleaz, kk, thx bai!” But this is just the attitude I see becoming progressively annoying as I see /2 spam raid spots for holy priest and pally healers and take a perfectly capable druid like myself and say “uhhh, we’re cool, thanks, we’d rather have a pally”. And THIS, is exactly what the devs were trying to avoid (and used as a justification for the pally healing “nerf” of last week). But these are just the effects of our position as weak group healers…

        Outside of mastery, HoTs have lost their usefulness as damage mitigating spells when the blues tried to homogenize healing. I think the mistake on their end was underestimating the uniqueness of our healing toolset and how those spells – when actually used together- worked with each other when we could afford to cast them (a healing system that saw it’s peak in Ulduar before Wrath become a 2-spell spamfest).

        In essence, a Druid without HoTs is a weaker carbon copy of a Priest, without the cool AOE heal spells. Sure it’s great for tank healing, but it’s already been pointed out that pallys can do that and more. Who the hell would want to take a druid along for anything other than a battle rez (worst case scenario)?

        • Lissanna
          Posted December 31, 2010 at 12:24 pm | Permalink

          I have to keep some restraint because when I get too “doom & gloom”, it has a bad impact on the community. I’m also not experiencing much of the problem myself at the moment, mostly because my guild doesn’t start raiding until next week (we took a few weeks off for the holidays). Also, Xaar of Paragon pointed out that we had some early strengths in terms of mana efficiency & regen (which stop being an advantage the more other people gear up) that compensates for our weaknesses (like a band-aid) at earlier gear levels.

          The lack of direct AOE healing is something I’ve been hammering on about for months now, though, so I’m pretty sure we mostly agree. ;)

          • Posted January 1, 2011 at 5:23 am | Permalink

            That we do in regards to the AOE heals.

            There is a far simple solution. We already HAVE a group heal in Wildgrowth, but with the way groups take damage, the HoT just is ineffective. Where WG is concerned, you can return the HoT effect of the spell to viability if you maintain it’s current level, but simply add a multi-target direct heal component to it.

            I’d say a WG comprised of a Direct Heal + HoTs would work very much in line with a Disc Priest’s PoH + Divine Aegis. And even better yet for balancing, the HoT component of it could only be proc’d on a WG crit, just like Divine Aegis, that way you don’t have Holy Priests yelling that our group heal is better than theirs, AND we can continue to promote healthy stat balancing by not ignoring crit too much in favor of a uselessly high amount of haste.

  10. Hungar
    Posted December 31, 2010 at 12:43 pm | Permalink

    I am not into raid content yet, but my concern with healing mushrooms is that it would take at least 2 spell casts / GCDs in order to do something as effectively as other classes do in one cast. So while this tool would be added to our repertoire, it still would seem like a “lite” version that would make us less effective and desirable in a raid environment.

    I would rather have an instant cast that would “plant” the mushroom on a target or in a targeted location on the ground, and perhaps have a 2-3 second delay for mushroom “growth”, after which it would automatically detonate for AoE direct healing. I think the “growth” delay would remain in the spirit of HOTs, but would give us the direct healing we need, in a single cast. The delay would be equivalent to other classes cast times for AoE spells, plus good druids would be rewarded for anticipating raid damage from boss mechanics by casting it 2-3 seconds before the damage occurs instead of being purely reactionary. It would probably require some sort of cooldown ala Wild Growth, but I think this kind of tool would make the druid AOE more interesting and effective. I do not see any reason why this couldn’t become a talent to change the balance spell Wild Mushroom, and replace a current talent, like Malfurion’s Gift, as Lissanna suggested.

    Here’s to hoping for improved druid AoE healing in the future.

  11. H
    Posted December 31, 2010 at 12:57 pm | Permalink

    Hey, Lissanna

    Simple question – would an AoE swiftmend work? Perhaps on the same CD as a single-target SM but you can choose for it to hit other raid-members nearby in the same way that efflorescence works now but without the HoT component..

    I’ve had a long day at work so probably not making my point very well and lack the concentration to make it properly at the moment.. but hopefully you may see what I’m getting at!

    Happy New Year!
    H

    • Lissanna
      Posted December 31, 2010 at 1:28 pm | Permalink

      At this point, I’m willing to accept any ideas that give us an AOE direct heal. We can only plant seeds of ideas. In the end, it’s the developers’ job to figure out how to implement things that work. ;)

  12. Tralia
    Posted December 31, 2010 at 1:34 pm | Permalink

    While I agree on almost all your thoughts the only one I don’t agree with is the Mushroom idea. Part of me is very glad they have been practically useless as a Boomkin, I hate tossing the damn things out. The only thing worse than having to target cast anything is having to target cast 3 different things -_- .

    If they would set it up so that all of them could be put out at one time, I might like it better, but right now I loathe the mechanics of those mushrooms.

    TBH right now I don’t think they are listening, and haven’t listened to much of anything since beta started.

    • Lissanna
      Posted December 31, 2010 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

      They fixed all the other problems I complained about EXCEPT for the direct AOE healing problem for druids and the mana cost of Resto shaman’s healing rain being too high.

  13. Posted December 31, 2010 at 2:41 pm | Permalink

    Great read, Lissana, thank you! Haven’t made it to heroics yet but have cleared 6/12 25m and I’m finding the same experiences. Maybe Blizzard doesn’t want us to have a fully viable AoE tool set. I’ve pretty much been relegated to tank heals which on one hand am enjoying because I didn’t get to do it in Wrath. As a tank healer, I’m finding my Druid very strong and with half 359 epics geared for straight regen, my mana survives an entire fight. This doesn’t make me feel useless and in fact makes me think of Holy Paladins in Wrath. They didn’t really have strong AoE group heals and were strictly for tank healing. Granted, they could save one or two people in a pinch because of bigger, faster direct heals but that’s not necessarily any different than how I’m finding Druids now–we can hit a Regrowth+Swiftmend on them and their health pool is in a survivable range. Unfortunately that is just one person, hence the crux of your post. For now I am happy classifying myself as a tank healer with some raid healing support via Wild Growth.

    The healing mushroom idea is interesting and could definitely be fun. If kept it in its current 3 mushroom form, I think it would need to also have a glyph that drops 3 at once, otherwise placing 3 down will feel cumbersome. The notion of a mushroom ON someone would work functionally but doesn’t make sense realistically–fungus on the body is called athlete’s foot! hehe

    I’m confident the developers will rectify the situation…just not so hopeful it will be in a time frame that we all would like.

  14. Nathlar
    Posted December 31, 2010 at 3:44 pm | Permalink

    I agree with the lack of tools, but we don’t need more buttons, we have plenty, the problem is the tools are not powerful enough. Maybe WG with a strong direct healing´+ HOT (but not badly done as RG that has a laughable HOT).
    I have just started raiding in 10m , only dropped a couple of bosses, but i already feel a lot weaker than before. I’m seriously thinking about benching myself as resto, changing to dps and get a pally to heal :(

    • Lissanna
      Posted December 31, 2010 at 3:52 pm | Permalink

      They tried the buffing our HOTs strategy, and what happened was that made us OP and then we got nerfed, and now we’re back to risking not being viable. If they can’t balance our HOTs to keep up with the spiky raid damage, they need to fix our toolset. Buffing HOTs just acts as a band-aid, that makes our HPS numbers look good even if that healing is being done in a way that isn’t actually all that helpful to the raid’s success.

  15. Ranasha
    Posted December 31, 2010 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

    Given at how things are going on, I think Druids may need a huge fix,and would benefit a complete redo on how the mechanics of the class works.

    I’ve been healing effectively since I could first do heroics. Its fairly easy, and not even blowing through all my mana and mana CD’s unless its a bad pull or someone screws up. But way raid damage is going, especially in BoT with Slate Drake and the Nether Xion *twitches*.

  16. Posted December 31, 2010 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

    I realize that I haven’t played my druid since before the Beta started and I have been fully committed to my priest ever since, but I do feel the need to weigh in a little bit about this worrisome topic.

    I see there is a lot of justified concern for the state of druid AOE healing right now, but I feel as if maybe things could be improved on the other side of the issue. Xaar did have more positive things to say about druids as tank healers than he did for them as raid healers. Isn’t that something that could be improved upon? If it’s clear that Blizzard is either not able to or not willing to buff druids, to get them back to the AOE style of healing that they were once known for, why not drive them more in the opposite direction? Why not make them more competitive as tank healers?

    I see that there are a large number of ideas and suggestions being tossed around to make those improvements a possibility. But has anyone come up with ideas or suggestions that could make druids more in line with paladins, in regards to being viable candidates for tank healing?

    That’s what I would like to see.

    Just to be clear, I’m not saying there is no basis for the AOE healing arguments. My druid is sitting at level 80 in Stormwind, so I have no cause to argue for either side. I will say that seeing all of this discussion is motivating me to level her and see what all the fuss is about. I feel until I actually experience it for myself that I’m a less than adequate judge or critic for what is really happening.

    :)

    • Lissanna
      Posted December 31, 2010 at 6:01 pm | Permalink

      Druids can heal tanks, but so can pretty much everyone else – and we can’t shine as the “top” tank healer because paladins will always own that spot since they have Beacon.

      • Twigen
        Posted January 3, 2011 at 11:31 am | Permalink

        I came to the realization fairly early (in the last couple of weeks :P) that as a resto druid, I was not going to be doing the most efficient/effective raid heals. I raid 10 mans with, usually, a holy paladin and holy priest. Once we shifted things a bit to have the holy priest taking care of most of our raid damage, with assistance from me and the paladin, we really started making progress.

        While I sometimes miss the rush of rejuv/wg spamming, I can’t say that I’m not liking being able to focus on one target. I like tank healing and it’s not something I’ve done much of since BC.

        So, in response to this post regarding Beacon and looking back at the days of BC and rolling LB stacks on multiple targets, I wonder if Blizzard could actually give restos a talent that works like beacon…maybe Mimicry of Life or something…that could work by copying the lifebloom stacks on a target to a second target. I wouldn’t even think there would need to be a reduced healing.

        I haven’t done any math about this, but Beacon gives 50% of a paladin’s heals to the target. If we have something that just essentially gives us 2 rolling stacks of lifeblooms while only having to refresh it on one target, that would be a huge boost in our efficiency as tank healers.

        The majority of the benefit would be in the 10 man raid setup where you only have three healers at most – but it would allow for druids and paladins to work together while somewhat homogenizing the healing as blizzard seems so fond of doing.

  17. Rivellana
    Posted December 31, 2010 at 7:27 pm | Permalink

    Ughhh…reading this honestly makes me go back into “the sky is falling” mode. I was doing fine until I was having discussions with my healer guildmates (a holy paladin and a holy priest) about progression raid healers, and the status of the different healing classes in raids right now. And then I started to get worried about how druids are doing with raid healing, and I’m feeling pretty unimportant right now. Of course, I can hold my own in 5-man heroics but that’s not a raid.

    I’m also not really understanding the Ghostcrawler post thinking that Malfurion’s Gift is saving resto druids too much mana because as it stands right now I’ve read a lot of forum posts complaining that druids are having a HORRIBLE time with mana right now in raids. Is that just from druids who haven’t figured out their conservation yet? Or are we being nerfed even further into something that is already an issue?

    • Posted December 31, 2010 at 7:37 pm | Permalink

      Hi Riv,

      Speaking as a resto druid from 10m normal raids that has now downed Magmaw, Omnitron Defense System, Maloriak and now working on Archamedes (in addition to downing the Tol Barad boss, but he hardly counts as content) I can see that using the OOC procs to the best of my ability definitely helps, however it still only puts me about on par with the shaman and holy priest I heal with. We all have fairly similar rates of mana depletion over the course of the fight, and very similar HPS as well. Priest comes out on top more often than not with CoH, but it is easily anyones game when it comes to the meters.

      That is in stark contrast to heroics however, where I never need to drink any more save for after a particularly grueling boss fight (whether by bad handling of mechanics or low dps, etc). I can often finish a trash pack like those in SFK where little to no CC is used and come out near to full mana, if not actually full. Innervate alone as it becomes available is more than enough to keep me going.

      So in short; in heroics I think OoC has made a case for being too powerful, but at the same time even in normal mode 10m raids, it’s absolutely mandatory. Without it I think I’d certainly be OOMing faster than the others.

      …Of course, that said I’ve also so far been free to reforge spirit out in favour of haste/mastery… So… There’s that, too.

      • StupidHero
        Posted January 1, 2011 at 7:36 pm | Permalink

        Going by my raiding expirience (10 man, with H/D Priest and Shaman) up to now:

        OoC is fine, what’s not fine, is OoC + ToL. This could be fixed by, e.g. let ToL add an ICD to Malfurion’s Gift. To be honest, I’d hate to see MG to go away (or nerfed), because that’s the only thing that adds a bit of complexity/randomness to druid healing.

        Also, I do not reforge spirit to mastery, and instead reforge mastery to spirit/haste (whichever is possible) and find myself to be ahead of both the Priest and Shaman I’m raiding with. (Though I must say, that both of them know how to not overheal my HoTs, else a lot of my healing would be wasted (~20-25% on each HT/LB/WG/Reju currently)

  18. Posted December 31, 2010 at 7:30 pm | Permalink

    The Healing Shrooms idea has some definite potential, but at 4 casts to get the benefit of them (Shrooms x3, Detonate) giving between 3-4 seconds of delay before the actual benefit of the cast could be a little much.

    Of course, you could precast them too, and then after an initial detonation weave them in with your other spells until you needed to detonate again perhaps (although since the AoE problem really only seems to present itself in heroic / latter tiers, I dunno if this time would actually /be/ available) I think it might need some other mechanic layered over the top to break the 3-4 seconds down to something more akin to other direct heals.

    I’m thinking perhaps a proc on Rejuv where each tick has a % chance to lay a mushroom at the targets feet, or perhaps tie it to Regrowth to make up in part for its lower numbers (and working well thematically with the name!) or any other number of possibilities. Another might be to have mushrooms have a chance to grow with each tick of efflorescence, but that may push that spell into the OP range.

    However it was done, some way to get the shrooms down without having to manually cast each and every one yet with the tradeoff of less precise control would sure go a long way toward making this a more appealing idea, imo.

    • Lissanna
      Posted December 31, 2010 at 10:02 pm | Permalink

      As a moonkin, I can drop & detonate a single mushroom (though it obviously would do less healing than using 3). There’s nothing that requires you to use 3 at the same time. This point that you & others have brought up are the kinds of details that would take time to work out. Blizzard is also welcome to not listen to the shroom idea, but find their own way to solve the problem (with the hope that the solution isn’t just to make Rejuv/WG spam better again, just to get nerfed a couple weeks later due to QQ).

      • Posted December 31, 2010 at 10:41 pm | Permalink

        I think balancing it around the use of a single mushroom would be terribly difficult. One would either be too weak to even contemplate doing or if worth doing, would render all 3 to be just too powerful.

        You’re right though that these are the relatively rather minor details of it. I’m with you in the hope that something is done though even if it has nothing to do with the shrooms in the end at all.

        Another possible solution might be something along the lines of a glyph for Wild Growth that reduced total healing by 20% (or some amount as deemed fair) but clumped it up into one hit instead of the current HoT format.

        • Lissanna
          Posted January 1, 2011 at 9:46 am | Permalink

          Turning WG into a direct heal would take away it’s usefulness in terms of priming our mastery, further devaluing the stat for raiding. another spell you could pop on people primed with WG would be possibly a much better route.

          With shrooms, they could always just drop it down to 1 application and a detonate. Three is really a pain in the neck for even moonkin, and it’s just hard to balance that way in the first place.

          • Posted January 1, 2011 at 5:07 pm | Permalink

            You’re right, I do actually use WG in that manner even, so should have thought of that.

            I suppose then the 20% (or whatever) reduction in power wouldn’t even be necessary, since as you correctly pointed out we’d already be losing some long term healing power from mastery and trading it for better snap AoE healing, it’d become a very situational glyph to say the least.

            I like having the shrooms be set down to down to one application. Or perhaps THEY could get a glyph that made it so that the placement of the shrooms had a widened placement AoE zone thingy to about the size of blizzard, and all three were set down randomly within that zone. Trade off of precise control for convenience, and I think if each mushroom had a 10-15ft range on it, it’d still be enough control.

  19. Wynn
    Posted January 1, 2011 at 2:20 am | Permalink

    We got rock in Halfus Wyrmbreaker do to lack of aoe healing with only Shammy and two Trees healing tonight, Sad thing is if my Holy Priest was 85(still 81) PoH and CoH would have allow us to down the boss. Healing rain and the druid heals just didn’t cut it.

  20. Xorkrik
    Posted January 1, 2011 at 5:40 am | Permalink

    Well I was thinking that blizz could change Tranquility (again). Nerf it a bit and make it a 1 min cooldown or something like that. Maybe via a glyph so that you could differentiate raid healing druids and tank healing druids.

    • Posted January 1, 2011 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

      Was discussing this same notion earlier in guild. Tranquility is truly an amazing and über powerful spell because of its 8 minute cool down. Used at the right time, I’m getting 300k+ healing from it and that is at a time that is absolutely saving people from dying. While the mechanics probably wouldn’t work so simply, dropping the cooldown even to 3 minutes (in line with Tree and Innervate) would mean reducing its healing by 3/8ths, or dropping my average 300k to 110k. Spread that across a 25m raid and its a matter of whether that would still absolutely save people from dying. Something feels like it wouldn’t.

      Add in that right now, it is OP for Feral Druids where ours are averaging 200k+ (frustratingly poor scaling with spell power). We have 2 at present and are using them in rotation with our 2 Druid healers, making for 4 Tranquilities that keep the raid alive virtually guaranteed. Tranquility feels more ‘right’ than it ever has before so changing it again feels wrong.

  21. Moocat
    Posted January 1, 2011 at 6:08 pm | Permalink

    What about a “HoT” that when cast on a player direct heals for x amount then 1 second tick later it jumps to another player and heals for a tick and so on for x number of players?

  22. Posted January 1, 2011 at 6:38 pm | Permalink

    Hello Lissanna,

    This post might be horrible to read, sorry in advance but I dunno I feel that since I have only read your blog for a while and never posted I will give you a little back fill for my position. I have played on and off with some breaks of numerous months since the beginning of wow. Leveled a druid the hardest way possible in vanilla as resto (idiot back then) and have primarily healed as my druid all this time expect for the time of kara in which I tanked but also healed when needed. I would have to say that in all that time, and I will say that I might of missed some hard times, this has been the worst as far as healing in my personal experience.

    Tuesday of this week my guild The Risen on Tich. killed Magmaw in 25 man and it might be me and I am still trying to get down on how to heal as well as I used to in these new conditions, but I was the lowest in healing of all the healers (holy pally, 2 resto shaman, 2 priests (i believe both holy) and me). Then Wednesday came and we didn’t have as many show for the defense constructs encounter so we went 10 man and killed it. Healers of me, a holy priest (who used to be our best priest) and a resto shaman. All of us had pretty much even healing on the kill shot but I was at the end of nearly every attempt and at the kill shot constantly out of mana, which seems our new mana state.

    During wrath, which I understand was easy mode healing, I would end fights with a half mana bar or somewhere around there. If ever I went out of mana I could always get myself back up via innervate or pots. But now it feels that innervate doesn’t seem to bring in as much and by the time the cooldown is coming up from the first use I am usually in desperate need of it. Maybe this is just a fault in my healing. My healing strategy in the defense construct encounter was myself on one of the tanks and the holy priest on the other with the shaman raid healing and it worked out. Was this the best strategy? I have no clue but it worked. As far as my rotation and why I would have issues: I always kept lifebloom up on my tank and constantly be casting nourish on him or on a raid member to help the shaman but their are time, which I hope its agreed upon, where the only spell viable to save someone is Healing touch. I would use my rejuv and swiftmend when my tank would get low and then spam healing touch to get him up. Which blows a ton a mana. All the while I am doing wild growth on cooldown to help with healing. Am I doing this wrong?

    In reading your suggestion about healing mushrooms I would have to say that at first glance I don’t really like the idea for a few reasons. If say I am asked to offtank heal or tank heal (which probably wouldn’t happen in a raid sense because as its said paladins are far better) I am suppose to take the 3-4 seconds including GC’s to put down these mushrooms so that I can use them when the burst happens? And on fights with aoe would not the mushrooms be destoryed by the aoe before I could use them? (are the mushrooms protected like totems from aoe?) I am not someone who feels we need a need shiny spell or something to keep us in the limelight (to some degree), but I do feel the nerfing with higher mana costs with lower healing hit that some of our spells have now has really put us in a big hole.

    I feel that Traq. saves me a lot now in 5-man at times. Which I don’t know if thats exactly a bad thing seeing as its a spell I never had a reason to use up until cata. But I don’t think I would go as far to say it needs to be lowered. If there is one thing I would want a buff for would be the Effy effect. I don’t feel its as beneficial as other classes healing spells.

    FYI as far as reading these comments I only got halfway, but I did read the person complaining about healing 5-mans and I dont see them being that hard currently. Yes there are some bosses that can be potentially very difficult for us to heal but if your tank and dps actually do what they are suppose to not standing in shit and etc. then its all gravy.

    Okay this post is all over the place so heres one more thing I can throw out there. For raid healing does it seem that the only reason to use tree is to then be able to blanket the raid/party with lifebloom and wildgrowth due to the expensive nature of regrowth? I have almost taken regrowth off my bar because its not even worth casting to do Effy with.

  23. Joaquin
    Posted January 1, 2011 at 9:36 pm | Permalink

    Look, I’ve done most normal modes on 10 man, and druids are good on all fights except Chimaeron, and even there we are decent with our strong and cheap tank healing and tranquility. Since Xaar is the main character of all this, it’s worth noting that he’s killed all heroic modes that Paragon’s killed. Method’s resto druid (Owld) who commented in that thread as well has been present in all their heroic kills. Ensidia are using resto druid(s). Premonition are using resto druids; two of them in fact in their first Chimaeron heroic kill. Xaar just killed Valiona & Theralion 25 heroic – a world first, and they are not bringing him to a progression raid with a world first on the line to be nice. Our strengths are obviously making up for our weaknesses.

    If you read one of Xaar’s later post in that thread you will see him coming to the conclusion that Mana Tide (+ on use spirit trinkets) is the main culprit, and what fuels priest’s endless PoH spam. It _will_ be nerfed, and sooner rather than later. Top guilds are probably anticipating this nerf.

    That said, my solution to our aoe problems is a new talent called Abundance.

    Abundance
    Allows three Wild Growth to be cast without cooldown.
    10 second duration, 1 minute cooldown.

    It would essentially give you 3 charges of Wild Growth you could you use up within 10 seconds.

    • Posted January 2, 2011 at 6:41 pm | Permalink

      While contemplating on what to write as a response to the main post, I just thought it would be good to note that I’ve been moonkin on Chimaeron, Valiona/Theralion, and Ascendant Council. We did opt for a resto druid on the twin dragons instead of a second shaman, but two would have been completely redundant.

    • Kuhbus
      Posted January 3, 2011 at 5:29 am | Permalink

      Your suggestion sounds great!!!
      Combined with a higher initial heal of WG :-)

  24. Maven
    Posted January 1, 2011 at 10:40 pm | Permalink

    I have mixed feelings about healing shrooms. I have written about this before, but i keep feeling like many of your fixes are the right solutions to the wrong problems.

    My number one problem at the moment is that the damage to healing feels wrong. During heroics I spend many fights “crit waiting”, because as soon as i get living seed +50% on the tank, I can afford to spend a cast NOT on the tank can can WG/nourish/rejuv/rebirth/innervate. I am not saying that heroics are particularly hard – because its probably been about a week since the last time I saw a wipe, but what I am saying is that Blizz wanted to make mana a real secondary concern, but instead they made time the real secondary concern. As I’ve been doing raids – and its possible that my groups have just been insufficiently geared for em or failing due to other stupid reasons – but i have had MANY times where the fight mechanics makes spending the time to target and Battle Rez would only mean other deaths – and that while chaining innervates is a good idea, multiple healers take the time off casting to do it can ONLY happen during VERY selective low-damage times.

    I also feel like the current state of our form is strange. We are viable tank healers – and almost nonfunctional raid healers – but 3 of our 4 cooldowns (wg, tranq, ToL) have primarily raid healing benefits. (ToL +15% is welcome on tank healing, but that is nothing compared to the extended WG and LB spam it gives). So we carry cooldowns that don’t help out the role we fill best in raids – meaning that for our cooldowns to be effective they have to basically be used in coordination with other healers so that we are giving them extra casts to assist us in tank healing. It may work after a fashion, but it seems to me to be designed to provide stupidity survival tools instead of tools that facilitate doing our job right.

    In any case, my answer to the healing problem would be to lower mob damage, raise mob health, and get rid of enrage timers – or to work towards this point so that eventually what truly matters is healer mana rather than artificial fight ending points – so that time stops being SO critical, and mana can become the critical resource to manage.

    That kind of redesign won’t be coming before 4.2. I believe that it is the true solution that blizzard meant for this patch, and just didn’t get there (I have written before about how I don’t think its the best solution, but considering where they went, I think this is the best way to continue developing).

    In that same light, while having burst healing for us would go a LONG ways in making us viable raid healers, I dislike healing shrooms. For them to be worth the long cast time, they have to do a TON of healing. For them to be worth the higher miss chance, they have to do a TON of healing. the combination of these two makes me believe that they would simply be too prone to amazingness/worthlessness and would fluctuate just as frustratingly as our current rejuv/eff has been.

    I don’t know what the solution is, and I admire your working for one, but I think there has to be something better than healing shrooms.

    • Posted January 2, 2011 at 2:25 am | Permalink

      “…to work towards this point so that eventually what truly matters is healer mana rather than artificial fight ending points – so that time stops being SO critical, and mana can become the critical resource to manage.”

      This.

      Enrages, both soft and hard make fights stupid coupled with healer mana. Essentially that is what SHOULD dictate a fight, the healer’s ability to expend and effectively mange their mana (along with other factors like mechanics execution by the raid, etc). This is how it works in PVP, and I don’t see why it couldn’t work in PVE: the fight ends when the healer(s) has(have) no mana; NOT when the boss decides to take a OMGIMSICKOFTHISYALLAREDEADNOW concentrated Green Hulk with redbull shot that empowers him to wipe a raid.

      • Posted January 2, 2011 at 5:53 am | Permalink

        There’s a rather simple reason why an enrage time is often used in addition to having healer mana dictate the end of fight, and that is to combat healer stacking. Take 5 healers to a 10 man and rotate them through active healing duty!

        Now of course, there are ways to gear check the groups DPS (breaking shields to interrupt some critical skill, burning down adds before they do something, etc) but having something of this nature in /every/ fight would get equally old as the enrage timer, imo.

        • Lissanna
          Posted January 2, 2011 at 9:55 am | Permalink

          During Burning Crusade, I remember that a lot of groups brought 8 healers to at least some fights. :)

  25. Clnteastwoof
    Posted January 2, 2011 at 1:48 am | Permalink

    I have to say I was very doom and gloom after the post by paragon’s druid. I am frustrated that the druid class is sub par on certain areas since it was my first toon to level to 85. I have been considering leveling another healing class though I think Murphy’s Law happen and druids will be fixed as I get to 85. I am glad that druids are posting their concerns and hope that after the holiday blizzard puts some attention into areas that are lacking. Blizzard has many tools available to balance the game for druids, mastery, glyphs, and many many coefficients.

    At the moment my biggest gripe is my connection or lack there of since 4.0.1, with how much I disconnect during load screens and randomly in a dungeon.

    • Lissanna
      Posted January 2, 2011 at 10:01 am | Permalink

      Connection issues are something you should look into with your Internet Service Provider or the Tech Support forums, or both.

      I want to give you some encouragement – that these posts have to sound doom & gloom to get their point across, but they are still mostly in the realm of theorycrafting and at this point only effect a relatively small part of the druid community.

  26. Zie
    Posted January 2, 2011 at 8:25 pm | Permalink

    I’ve seen a lot of we’re bad at healing, low on charts stuff. I don’t quite believe all of that, or perhaps the healers in my raids are just super bad. I believe that it is only our AoE healing, and possibly a tank cd, are what’s holding us back.

    As I’ve said on the wow forums, exploding mushrooms could be OP, but still think we need something to compensate for our horrible raid healing tools. Fights like magmaw are rediculous, and trying to get use out of mastery is difficult for raid healing. Nourish requiring a hot still doesn’t help either.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/374fniys3pctfjhm/sum/healingDone/ are our logs for what we did on tuesday. The only fight i sucked on was magmaw. Did some odd positioning which threw me off quite a bit haha. Anyways, we can make it for now, but we’ll def need a little boost eventually.

    • Lissanna
      Posted January 3, 2011 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

      The argument I’ve been making all along has never been about placement on meter logs, since that’s not what a direct heal is intended to fix. To fix low meter log performance for any class, they can simply buff existing spells. The need for a new spell has nothing to do with meter performance, and everything to do about having the right tools to do important sources of healing to handle burst AOE damage likely to happen throughout all of Cataclysm. Since druids lack an important tool necessary for success as an AOE healer, it’s going to hold us back in ways that aren’t measured by a single output number on logs.

  27. mond
    Posted January 2, 2011 at 10:24 pm | Permalink

    I think that lifeblooms bloom mechanic would have been a good aoe heal. It treaches us to time the heal right to have it go off at the correct time when all the damage is going out

  28. Wynn
    Posted January 3, 2011 at 2:19 am | Permalink

    Another day of healing raids and Magmaw stomp us over and over. I would trade bear and cat form for a non hot aoe that’s not on a 10min cooldown.

    I was top healer tonight but the amount of work I have to do to match the priest and pally is mind numbing

  29. Kuhbus
    Posted January 3, 2011 at 3:01 am | Permalink

    I’m with the posters that point out that it is not only a problem with HM raiding. Like others pointet out before chimaeron is terrible for druid healers! Our raid lead decided to replace me with a priest and his throughput on the aoe-phase was about 30-50% higher than mine… pretty frustrating!
    My only good moment in the logs was the transition to phase 3 in which i used tranquility :-(
    Worse than that our raid lead realised that for 10 man there’s no real need for a resto druid and changed heal setup to pally, priest, shaman (mana tide)!
    Guess who lost his raid slot …

    • StupidHero
      Posted January 3, 2011 at 6:04 am | Permalink

      We had a Shaman/HPriest do the raidheal, with myself on the tanks. LB/Reju should be enough for the MT (should yield the 10k needed for the tank to survive9 , so you can concentrate fully on the OT (DK for me, I didn’t neet help from the other 2 healers) though you may want to have the other 2 helping after a massacre. (to be sure your tank survives, if you cannot heal enough in those 5+ x seconds)

      For Feud; WG+Swiftmend+Reju (yeah, that’s working)

      • Kuhbus
        Posted January 3, 2011 at 7:30 am | Permalink

        i think this is an option for our next weeks on this boss! but the problem is a more general one. I’m actually at itemlevel 350 (6 epics) and have 30% less hps and a 30% higher mana consumption than our pally healer with lower gear! so i really have problems to argue against my replacement… and this sucks!
        ps: healing since tbc and practiced and optimised my healing in cata 5man heroics and raids. so skill should (hopefully) not be my problem!

        • StupidHero
          Posted January 3, 2011 at 8:33 am | Permalink

          I’ve a constant 11k HPS on this fight, so the only difference ought to be mana consumption, which again raises the question, as to why blizz want’s to nerf OoC in the first place, because it’s only OP during ToL, so the most logical nerf would be, to have ToL apply an ICD to Malfurions gift.

  30. Brian!
    Posted January 3, 2011 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

    Do you think Blizzard listens? I only really like playing my druid and I let all other alts suffer. Before the expansions we were the healers least wanted due to the lack of non-combat rez. It was nice in wrath for a while to be appreciated. Heck, I even liked BC when everyone suddenly liked my tanking. I just don’t want to go back to the days of missing out on raid content because of my class.

    • Lissanna
      Posted January 3, 2011 at 8:31 pm | Permalink

      Blizzard won’t let it hit the point where resto druids are generally unable to raid, as they are usually pretty fast to act when one of their healing specs isn’t capable of raiding at all. The problem right now largely exists in isolated encounters, mostly on heroic difficulties. The concern is that things could get worse in the future, so that Blizzard will need to take action before things get bad. My job as a blogger is to identify problem areas and provide feedback about them before they hit the point of no return. ;)

      Take what Xaar said on page 10 of his post:
      http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1302895318?page=10

      • Kuhbus
        Posted January 4, 2011 at 6:30 am | Permalink

        Hi Lissanna, i do not agree that it’s only a problem with hardmodes and isolated encounters.
        Because semi/low progession raids like ours (10man 10/12 NH) try best on our level and the RL is responsible for bringing the best players AND classes to the raid. And reading forums and log-Files the only conclusion in terms of raid-heal is: pally or priest are best in slot :-)
        Why? Assuming that alle healers in one raid are at the “same” skill and gear level it’s obvious that the ranking is pally > priest > shaman=druid. Heal pally with equivalent gear has around 20% more hps (not overheal!) and at the end of fight minimum 20% more mana! me using innervate / flasks on CD. Probably it’s QQing but /2 starts adapting to these facts and RL only take a druid if there’s no pally or priest availible or there’s no cat/boomkin in the raid for buffs/brezz.

        • Lissanna
          Posted January 4, 2011 at 9:46 am | Permalink

          Pallys shouldn’t be “assigned” to raid healing, due to the long cooldown of their multi-target heals. They should actually be tank healing and just blowing their cooldowns when there is a lot of damage going on. (ie. focus on tanks, use raid heals when necessary).

          That probably works out best for druids, too – ie. be assigned to focus on the tank, but use SM/Efflorescence & Wild growth on the raid as needed. The problem being that paladins fill a “paladin” role better than druids do. That said, I don’t have enough evidence to support problems with druids at the normal-mode content level to be able to make claims about it.

  31. Rivellana
    Posted January 4, 2011 at 10:32 am | Permalink

    I suppose it’s a good time that I switched from a 25 man guild to helping form a new 10 man guild for Cata…my guildmates have heard a lot of my QQ lately about resto druids and keep trying to tell me they won’t replace me even if I end up doing less healing until Blizzard fixes us. However, my other healers are a holy paladin and holy priest…I’m the only druid right now so brez > mana tide and we already have a mage and ele shaman for hero.

    • Yggsdrasil
      Posted January 5, 2011 at 1:23 am | Permalink

      I honestly haven’t seen myself do less healing than any other class. I run in a 10 man (6/12 bosses down) with a Holy Pally and a Resto Shaman and we’re usually fairly even (each of us at about 30-35% healed). The Holy Pally actually overhealing a lot more than either myself or the shaman (due to Beacon maybe?).

  32. thehampster
    Posted January 4, 2011 at 12:46 pm | Permalink

    Lissanna,

    Your healing mushroom idea sounds very interesting. It seems like a fun tool that would be especially rewarding when used properly. `However, for the love of God, please do not encourage Blizzard to nerf Malfurion’s Gift!!!! The OoC proc’s (and deciding how to use them) make healing much more fun these days. Blizzard is already looking at MG, and we don’t need prominent resto druids in our own community encouraging them to nerf one of the only talents we have that might be considered OP.\

    If you’re looking for more talent points, then it would make a lot more sense to condense living seed and efflo into 4 points instead of 6 since they are both so weak anyway. Lately I’ve been playing just as much feral as resto, and if we lose MG I think i’d have to finally throw in the towel and just make feral my main spec again.

    Another idea would be to buff Gift of the Earthmother so that in addition to giving rejuv an instant heal, it also gives WG an instant heal. The only problem would be if it lead blizzard to nerfing WG afterward (or increasing it’s mana cost). Since we use WG to prime mastery for our other heals, that could end up hurting us.

    Or here’s another idea: buff efflorescence so it isn’t such a frickin joke! Maybe if it healed for more than like 4% of a dps’ers health, we’d be in better shape for raid heals. Efflo could be more like RG, in that it hits hard right away, and only has a minmal hot effect afterward.

  33. Yggsdrasil
    Posted January 5, 2011 at 1:17 am | Permalink

    It is still possible to double LB roll on the MT and anyone else (OT, yourself) as shown here: http://treebarkjacket.com/2010/12/15/how-to-keep-lifebloom-on-two-targets-video/

    I just performed this technique a number of times during our raids tonight. Granted, the likelihood of one of the two stacks dropping off increases with time as mistakes and lapses of attention can happen or it becomes necessary to prioritize healing a raid member versus renewing a lifebloom stack, but practice makes perfect right?

  34. Darkalia
    Posted January 5, 2011 at 9:28 am | Permalink

    Hello,

    I’m a pretty new resto druid compared to a lot of you (started in January 2009) but I really like the challenge Cataclysm bring.

    I’m only at 2/12 normal mode, but I did see the limit of the aoe burst healing on magmaw fight already. Mark me, I don’t think it’s real problem, but I really did see the difference with and without a priest. I can’t complain if I have a spot after all :).

    I was considering the problem when I read by accident Xaar answering to a guy and pointing to the forum, which ended reading here.

    I don’t buy, at all, the mushrrom idea. I think it’s fun on the paper but it’s rather complicated and the uniq mechanism might really unbalance the game and some encounter at a point druids NEED to be included. Which I don’t want at all, I really like the idea “Bring the person, not the class”.

    Living Seed. I really think they should rework it to something around aoe healing.
    Basically, you put your living seed on the person, (buff may need to last a bit longer) then you can use your detonate to make them bloom in a aoe direct healing manner. To avoid too much stacking, a hard limit of 3 or less at the same time can be set.
    This will solve several issues :
    -the 3 talent point in living seed won’t be wasted anymore. These 3 points were hardly useful except to unblock Efflorescence.
    -As the only way to provide a living seed is to make a crit, the stat will be more attractive, but you can still count on Nature’s bounty talent to make your regrowth a “almost 100%” living seed. Which you can’t spam because of the cost, which is perfect to prevent abuses.
    -the detonate CD of 10 seconds will do as another limitation of the spell

    What do you think of that idea ?

  35. Selinya
    Posted January 5, 2011 at 3:51 pm | Permalink

    My guild just started raiding seriously after the holidays (had some stuff going on, but really not all that much), and I have to say, I really feel the lack. There were already some encounters that I despise (Baron Ashbury, etc) because of our lack of a real AOE, but raiding is just not fun at all. We have a lack of healers right now, so we’re stuck with what we can bring, not necessarily the ideal comps.

    The fight that has really defined all that is wrong with resto currently is Magmaw. I loathe this encounter so much. Lots of random intense spike damage, lots of unavoidable AOE, and people need to be healed pretty much right away. As a druid, I look at the fight and realize we have no tools to handle it like the other classes (except maybe shamans; they’re hurting now too). No good instant heals anymore, no shields, no damage reducers, no tank CDs, no real AoE heals.

    I’d really like to stress the “No real AoE heals” part. WG and Efflo just do not cut it. Efflo in particular is far too weak. Healing stream totem does more than it does. We need something. I don’t think the mushrooms would be the best idea, but at least it would be something to help.

    It’s not fun going into a raid knowing that while I *can* complete the encounters, it would be so much better with any other healing class. Resto druids bring nothing unique to the table, and what we do bring, the other classes can do better. Raiding just isn’t fun like this. Blizz destroyed the tools we used before, but they have yet to give us anything to replace them.

    I’ve honestly considered levelling my priest up – at least then I’d feel useful.

  36. Posted January 6, 2011 at 2:04 am | Permalink

    I think a good fix for what ails us would be to give our Lifebloom its bloom when you are in caster form and have to move it to another target. This would provide a burst heal for raid without making it too overpowered for tank healing. You would have to sacrifice your stack on the tank to burst the raid and mana limitations would make bursting the raid something you couldn’t afford to do constantly. There would be a choice there which seems to be the idea behind the new design that they want us to choose if this is the situation for this or for that.

    It would also solve the problem of tank switches. In caster form you would bloom your stack on the old tank as you moved to the other tank.

    We’ve paid the mana for that bloom. We should get it when we change targets.

    • Chiraa
      Posted January 6, 2011 at 1:44 pm | Permalink

      All this is probably moot, with the upcoming patch 4.0.6:
      http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/2137-Patch-4.0.6-deployed-on-PTRs
      ****
      Restoration
      * Omen of Clarity now procs from damage spells and attacks instead of proc from damage and healing spells.
      * Rejuvenation now costs 16% of base mana, down from 26% of base mana.
      * Nature’s Bounty proc effect removed and replaced with a new effect – Increases the critical effect chance of your Regrowth spell by 20/40/60%. In addition, when you have Rejuvenation active on three or more targets, the cast time of your Nourish spell is reduced by 10/20/30%.
      * Empowered Touch now increases direct healing done by Healing Touch, Regrowth, and Nourish. (Old – Increased healing by Healing Touch and Nourish only)
      ****

      Plan on relearning how to heal again. Also, does this mean we should keep a dot on the boss for extra OCC procs? I know blizzard doesn’t care about anything but the end game at this point, but I am annoyed that while leveling, I won’t get any OCC procs as a resto druid unless I DPS the boss… and I have 2 druids I’m leveling. Its annoying that we have to talent into this as resto. The ironic thing is… OOC is a passive RESTO ability.

      • Lissanna
        Posted January 6, 2011 at 5:00 pm | Permalink

        The official patch notes have some other information, too. I’ll be discussing the changes more on the next episode of our podcast that we are pre-recording tomorrow evening! I’ll probably also have a blog post coming out after I’ve had more time to look into the changes.