More on 4.0.6 resto talent builds

So, my last resto post seems to have freaked out a few people. First, I would like to say that 4.0.6 only makes things better for resto druids, not worse. Second, if you want to keep whatever talent build you have right now and heal the way that you are healing right now, it will (more than likely) be a viable healing strategy in the next patch. So, there is really nothing to freak out about.

That said, my last post was mostly to bring up concern over the talent tree design, and to see how people were going to cope with our talent tree not being designed in a very logical way. It looks to me like about half of the resto druids will be keeping Efflorescence, and the other half will likely drop it. The people dropping efflorescence are more likely to be 10-man raiders and 5-man dungeon specs, whereas people running 25′s seem more likely to be picking up efflorescence.

What drives me absolutely crazy is that not everyone can pick up a talent that I feel should be “mandatory”, but it is my own personal crusade to make the resto talent tree more logical, and trying to get the choices to be less painful, rather than something that an average player would need to worry about.

That said, I see three main talent build strategies emerging lately. The first two are what I posted in my last thread, but the third is dropping moonglow from their builds and keeping Efflorescence:

Since it doesn’t look like today’s patch day, we still probably have another week for things to change on us, or for more time to figure out optimal talent builds. The above talent builds make it look like I have something against Blessing of the Grove. If you guessed that, then I’d like to say that it’s mostly my frustration with how little you get out of those 2 talent points compared to what you get for putting points in Imp Rejuv.

That said, I can’t really say which of the 3 talent point strategies is “best”, since it will ultimately come down to a few questions:

  • How bad are your mana problems after the 4.0.6 patch? If  you consistently end the fight low on mana (or run OOM before a fight ends), keep moonglow and other mana-related talents. If you don’t have mana problems, then dropping moonglow  (or going without Malfurion’s Gift) could spare points for you to put other places. At our current gear level, people will generally need the mana-focused talents.
  • How much do you get assigned to AOE/raid healing? If you AOE/raid heal a lot, especially in 25-mans, you will want to keep efflorescence. If all you ever do is tank heal, efflorescence becomes less desirable, and allows you to drop it in favor of other talents.
  • Cleanse magic? For 5-mans and 10-mans, being able to cleanse magic is important, but could be less important in 25-mans if you discuss it with your other guild healers and they agree that you can drop the Nature’s Cure talent.
  • What talents do you seem to be benefitting from? For example, you may not want Nature’s Grace if you never use Regrowth to proc it, but if you use regrowth to proc NG, then NG becomes a good talent. If you are horrible at using OOC procs before the buff falls off, then you get less use out of Malfurion’s Gift.
  • You might not actually need all 3 points in Nature’s Bounty if you don’t use much Regrowth or Nourish in your raid healing strategy (ie. maybe 2 points there would work better for your preferred build).
  • Maybe Gift of the Earthmother won’t benefit you as much after the patch, so you won’t feel the need to max out the points there (though I do like the instant rejuv tick for raid healing, if you are assigned to tank healing and don’t let LB bloom all that often, the talent becomes less desirable).

So, there still do seem to be options, based on whether you are assigned to tank or raid healing, and depending on how your exact healing strategy works out. However, those options are about trying to get as many of the “mandatory” talents as possible, and only dropping points from the mandatory talents that you benefit from the least. How could they fix it? Well, the easiest solution would be to un-link Living Seed and efflorescence so that Living Seed can become an optional talent to allow people to make talent builds that pick up all the “mandatory” talents and actually have more flexibility in getting Efflorescence without living seed.

41 Comments

  1. Stariann
    Posted January 18, 2011 at 1:32 pm | Permalink

    Recently I acquired several new pieces of gear and am running around 348 item level. I’m not OOM’ing as bad as I was before as the new spell rotation suggested is helping. Our current raid leader is head strong on “eff” 8/2/31.

    I’m running 1/3/37 and I’m beginning to think I need to respec. Current 106k hp 102Kman.
    I like natures ward and blessing of the grove. But thinking Natures ward is a waste, I can just use barkskin. I also have Natures Cure as I need to remove curses in 5man. Mana isn’t a prob, but I don’t seem to proc Effe as much as my raid leader with lower item level overall and lower mana pool.

    Maybe it is my rotation. 3 LB, rejuv, nourish (tank)…and I throw out rejuv or aoe when needed.

    I wish someone would elaborate on the trinkets from archeo and darkmoon cards. They make me foam at the mouth.++++INT….they look worth it…but the time to get them. I’d just rather spend the gold than the time. But time = gold in WOW.

    Also. Alot of discussion on Int>spirt>crit>Mastery?or Haste?
    I don’t care about Priest healers and all their spirit they need.
    What do Druid healers need?

    Our 10man raid leader is LOADED on Haste but 98kmana pool. Wouldn’t you load INT first.

    Whats best for resto healers? Are there caps for each.

    Also..all I hear is its the “10man dynamic” and two druid healers is a waste. They need more group composition. Any opinions on that..as if so..I’m #2-3 healer…and I will never get a spot in 10man.

    Help :) And I love the information I get from everyone.

    • LXj
      Posted January 18, 2011 at 3:38 pm | Permalink
    • Lissanna
      Posted January 18, 2011 at 5:43 pm | Permalink

      In terms of resto stats, when coming up with my 346 ilevel gear list, I valued: Int > Spi > Haste > Crit = mastery

      This seems to be a pretty standard caster/healer stat ranking, so that’s what I have been going with while first gearing up. I’ve also been sticking with this because it allows me to gear up my moonkin & resto stuff with the same priorities, rather than having to make two completely different gear sets. I value spirit & int over haste so that you have the mana to cast more spells faster. I don’t gear around “caps” for my resto gear at all right now, but I try to have spirit on as much gear as possible right now, to help with my longevity in raid encounters. Also, the value of mastery is increasing in 4.0.6, which I haven’t yet taken into account with my general stat rankings.

      However, what stats are on YOUR current gear (along with how you are healing) will effect YOUR current value of things like haste and mastery. You have to use spreadsheets like Wrath Calcs to get something more specific to you: http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t110354-resto_cataclysm_release/

      Also, efflorescence isn’t really a proc because it is tied to Swiftmend, where you have a 100% chance for it to apply every time you swiftmend. So, it’s a matter of using swiftmend every time it comes off cooldown if you want more efflo in your healing done.

    • Zie
      Posted January 18, 2011 at 7:39 pm | Permalink

      I have both tsunami and doll trinkets. I love them very much, even though the doll is an on use. If you can aquire them, I would say go for it.

  2. Phorce
    Posted January 18, 2011 at 3:28 pm | Permalink

    Dont understand with the max mana build why you wouldnt max out Furor for an additional 5% maximum mana vs maxing out Moonglow for a 3% reduction in mana cost? Am I missing out on some math somewhere?

    • Lissanna
      Posted January 19, 2011 at 12:09 am | Permalink

      Around the time I wrote the last version of the healing guide, the math floating around had Moonglow at a higher value than Furor. I would expect Furor to catch up and pass moonglow at some point. However, that would be gear-dependent and outside the constraints of what I do for mostly beginners on this blog, and falls into the jurisdiction of things you should look for on EJ.

  3. LXj
    Posted January 18, 2011 at 3:51 pm | Permalink

    Personally I think first tier of balance tree sucks for resto druids. And to spend 8 points here just to loose a rank of furor? I do notice though that you pick NG in all your suggested specs. Is it really that good? I considered due 1 min. cooldown (and no reset-cooldown-on-eclipse mechanic) it’s too weak and unreliable

    Currently I run with 0/3/38 which allows me to pick “toy” talents like Perseverance and Fury of Stormrage. Tsunami Card and Alchemist Stone (and relatively high ilvl) allow me to worry less about mana (but then again, my guild haven’t actually killed anything yet — but we keep trying and learning!). And I don’t feel like I’m missing any must-have talents (then again, maybe I should try taking NG)

    One good thing about Effloresence — it may be weak on it’s own, but even in 10s healers tend to stack such effects. It also has an educational effect — people remember to stand in “healing circles”

    • Lissanna
      Posted January 19, 2011 at 12:13 am | Permalink

      I thought I spent half my post saying that people could move around some of the talent points depending on healing style and what roles you are filling in what content.

      >.>

      Honestly, I hate every possible talent spec because the talent tree is designed in a really crappy way for resto druids. The talent tree isn’t designed in a way that allows you to have a good spec, and that’s the whole problem that I have with it. We have several incredibly powerful talents, and a handful of weaker talents. However, the link between Living Seed & Efflorescence makes picking up a good talent build impossible. It’s been a constant frustration since they squashed the talent trees and never put humpty-dumpty back together again.

    • thehampster
      Posted January 19, 2011 at 8:40 am | Permalink

      Xj, yes, NG really is that good. Druids don’t have any great cooldowns like pain suppression, so a massive haste buff tied to our emergency heal is phenomenal in sticky situations when tank healing. It’s also great for raid healing too since you’ll be using RG when OoC proc’s, and then the haste buff will buff all your hots.

      But regardless of how good it is, moonglow is just too good of a mana talent not to pick up. The second tier and balance and the first tier of feral are amazing for resto druids. This unfortunately leaves us with only 31 points for our resto tree, which is why it’s so difficult to pick a good spec. No matter what spec you take, you have to skip things that seem like core mechanics and it’s just painful. Your 0/3/38 build prevents you from having to deal with that pain, but you’re gimping your heals.

      There is no such thing as too much mana regen right now. You cannot possibly have enough b/c the more mana you have means you can use more poweful spells like RG, NT, RJ more often. Until you can spam RJ and RG all you want, I wouldn’t pass on any mana talents. And right now Moonglow pretty much blows Furor out of the water. Hopefully that will change b/c I’d rather have 3/3 furor, but that’s the way it is now.

  4. Shaloxeroligon
    Posted January 18, 2011 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

    Hey.

    I’m trying to polish up my resto build, and the talent that’s giving me some trouble is Malfurion’s Gift. The problem I’m having is that I don’t know which of my spells benefit from OOC. I heard that, when cata came out, that only my spells with a cast time were affected, but now I’m not sure if they changed it. Would you be able to clear that up for me?

    • Treeboi
      Posted January 18, 2011 at 5:31 pm | Permalink

      Omen of Clarity affects any spell with a cast time, or any feral dps ability. For resto druids, this means Healing Touch, Regrowth, or Nourish.

      The basic rule is to use Omen procs on Healing Touch. The only exception is if you have to cast a Regrowth to save someone when your Swiftmend or Nature’s Swiftness is down.

      Never use the Omen proc on Nourish, as Healing Touch has the exact same cast time.

      • Lissanna
        Posted January 18, 2011 at 5:51 pm | Permalink

        I believe they changed it such that Nourish won’t use up OOC procs, so you should only be able to use it on HT or Regrowth.

    • Reegar
      Posted January 18, 2011 at 5:41 pm | Permalink

      OoC benefits Healing Touch, Regrowth and, annoyingly, Swiftmend. Nourish does not consume it.

  5. Zeppelin535
    Posted January 18, 2011 at 4:25 pm | Permalink

    Hello, currently I am running a Resto spec similar to the 8/2/31 posted above. With increasing gear levels and the buffs to RJ and WG in the coming patch, I have been curious about the value of Genesis. Recently I respecc’d to http://www.wowhead.com/talent#0hfoZZMfzIbcru0uo:ocVbVmzmc dropping Furor and 1 point out of Moonglow to pick up 3/3 Genesis. I notice that in any of the posts I have read the value of Genesis hasn’t really been touched upon, I am curious as to anyone’s opinion of this spec I have posted.

    • Lissanna
      Posted January 18, 2011 at 5:54 pm | Permalink

      I honestly don’t think enough druids have high enough mana regen at this point to be able to drop both Furor & Moonglow, unless all you are doing is running content that you out-gear. For any type of progression, I would want either moonglow, furor, or both max’d out. I’d honestly drop Malfurion’s Gift long before I would drop either Moonglow or Furor – because Malfurion’s Gift is technically a weaker talent. People seem to want to pick up genesis, but I wouldn’t recommend it for the average druid at this point. I’m still at a gear level where I run OOM with the spec I’m running with by the end of fights (but I also don’t have Malfurion’s Gift in my current spec).

  6. Flac
    Posted January 18, 2011 at 5:52 pm | Permalink

    Just wondering if instead of putting the 3 points you have in Perseverance, spend them on Blessing of the Grove. Its a 4% increase to Rej, which will be used much more after the patch.

    I end up with something that looks like this with 1/2 Natures ward
    http://www.wowhead.com/talent#0hbhZMZrfzhdcrzkuo

    • Lissanna
      Posted January 18, 2011 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

      I don’t put blessing of the grove in my recommended builds because it’s kindof a crappy talent compared to the increase you get from a talent like Imp Rejuv or Genesis. So, I feel like putting it in any recommended builds really does a disservice to the community. Now, I DO say there that you can put those 3 points anywhere you want. I just don’t value BotG any higher than I value perserverence, and I like the survivability talent better than an unnoticeable rejuv healing increase.

  7. Healinore
    Posted January 18, 2011 at 8:22 pm | Permalink

    Hey there! Thank you so much for your blog and all the hard work and heart you put it to this! I check it weekly! I ended up experimenting with the first and the third build with my 10-man team in Blackwing Descent. I found that I enjoyed healing with the third spec (Dropped Moonglow) much more and chose to stick with it for now. I do have less mana efficiency to play around with, but I was much more comfortable with the effectiveness and wide range of healing spells I had at my disposal. Outside of the intuitive feel of the third spec, my healing output was greater with that spec as well.

  8. Erdluf
    Posted January 18, 2011 at 11:12 pm | Permalink

    Still doing five mans, and feeling mana constrained. I think I’ll go with your first build, with the following changes:

    1/3 NB
    1/1 NC
    3/3 GotEM

    I’m a bit scared of the weaker Rg, and no NS. I don’t think I’ll miss the faster Nourish, since Nourish is mainly used when things are boring anyway.

  9. Posted January 19, 2011 at 6:33 am | Permalink

    Ok, with the changes to rejuv (which are only slightly welcomed, but I have my own opinions about what could have made rejuv better) the following is the build I plan to try out for group/raid healing…

    We’ll call it the Rejuveration Build:

    http://www.wowhead.com/talent#0hfZMZrfzhbcrzRuo

    Essentially, stacking talents that boost the healing power of Rejuv, giving it an instant heal component, and allows you to quickly apply it to your three main rejuv targets to syngerize with hasting nourish.

    Keep in mind with the Rejuveration build is that it is not ideal for tank healing with the absence of Living Seed, however, keeping LB up on the tank would still be important to allow for OOC procs. But with this build, it would be encouraged to let LB bloom and then just reapply it, which would then boost healing even more via GotEm.

    Based on Reesi’s last post about haste stacking (http://theincbear.com/resto-haste-breakpoints/) since we’re already encouraging people to get as high as they can to reach the breakpoints of the periodic heals of their choice, the more easily attainable rejuv break point means that the Rejuveration build benefits greatly from that haste percentage, thus increasing the effectiveness of the spell based on this build recommendation.

    Some people might not be comfortable with my recommendation for the Rejuveration build because of the passing over of Nature’s Swiftness, which after two and a half years of resto healing, I’ve failed to find a sustained justification for taking it (even including pvp), so a slight alteration can be made to take it, and take points out of Nature’s Ward. Again preference and playstyle should be key factors in choosing which talents to select and which to skip.

    What’s also important to note is that skipping Efflorescence for this group/raid heal build is justified that rejuv will act as the group heal that eff could never be because it’s so weak. Although if the blues ever reconsider revert Eff back to a more powerful AOE group heal (not likely), I’ll reconsider taking it. But this is a personal choice. I’m sad to be looking at not taking such a fun and pretty looking spell, but it’s just not poweful enough to justify six talent points.

    • Lissanna
      Posted January 19, 2011 at 7:58 am | Permalink

      Nature’s Swiftness isn’t that good of a talent. That said, I still prefer moonglow over genesis in the balance tree.

    • Posted January 19, 2011 at 1:30 pm | Permalink

      I disagree with the notion that Living Seed is important for tank healing. I’m tank healing in both our 10/25man and Living Seed never accounts for more than 2-3% of my total healing which is at best mediocre. I too run the 8/2/31 build for now but even from yesterday that Rejuvenation mana cost was hotfixed, it’s apparent how more potent Rejuvenation is and a change of builds is in my opinion needed. I’m convinced that Genesis increased throughput, coupled with Blessing of the Grove, will make up for the loss of Living Seed/Efflorescence.

      Also, Efflorescence is much more potent in a 10man situation rather than a 25man situation due to the cap number of 6 players it affects before starting diminishing. Thus, I don’t agree with the statement that 10man raiders and 5man dungeon healers will drop it while 25man healers will not; if anything, it should be the other way around.

      • Posted January 19, 2011 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

        It’s the same amount of healing regardless of whether you have 25 people standing in the circle, or 6; if you have 25 people in a raid, there’s a lot less room on the floor, and therefore a higher chance that you’ll have 6 in the circle, to get the full amount. On 10, people tend to be more spread, so on some fights you probably won’t get your full 6 into the circle, and therefore you’re missing out on some of that healing.

        On a person-by-person basis, it’s likely to be stronger in 10 man raids, but overall, I think it is more useful and more likely to be economical in 25s.

        On 25man fights with a lot of stacking, I would take Efflorescence. On 10s with stacking, I’m not convinced. And on fights without stacking, I’d definitely steer clear.

        • Posted January 19, 2011 at 11:19 pm | Permalink

          Indeed. And there are just TOO many fights that are spread out. Especially the ones we do frequently in my guild…Throne, half the fights in BWD, etc… and we’re a ten man group.

          So, this is contributing to my decision to not take Efforescence.

          I have a sneaking suspicion that once the blues who are watching Resto Druid healing see that a significant portion of people are NOT taking a spell they took a lot of time in developing, they’ll make it more appealing. I’m not going to say they’ll flat out buff it, but I think they’ll at the very least, separate from Living Seed. That would solve a LOT of problems with Eff in terms of investment. From what I’ve seen, it’s split right down the middle on people who will continue to take Eff, and those who won’t. And if I were a blue, if fifty percent of my community was NOT taking a fun talent on which time was spent developing, something is wrong. Maybe we’ll see a change.

          Then again, maybe we won’t. And if we do, it may be something we won’t like or want, but may make it appealing. I think we’ve all played long enough to see it go in ANY direction.

          • Lissanna
            Posted January 21, 2011 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

            Efflorescence made up about 7% of my healing on our first 25-man night on Wednesday, but consistently fails me on 10-man raid nights.

            I end up putting myself on tank healing for 10′s as much as possible, and then I put HOTs on the tank and spam around rejuv/WG/Efflo on 25′mans.

  10. Luvaria
    Posted January 19, 2011 at 6:54 am | Permalink

    I’m probably going to go with something like this: http://ptr.wowhead.com/talent#00bZcZMfzIbcruouo

    I can’t decide what to do with the last 3 points. NS + Blessing of the Grove or Perseverance. We’re a 10 man strict guild running with a Holy Pally and Holy Priest with me, so I feel like the priest can handle the burst AoE with Prayer of Healing while I focus more on stabilizing the damage. On 2 tank fights I get the DK tank + raid, and with the paladin beacon and the DK’s self healing, I rarely have to use more than LB + Rejuv on him, so the rest of my time is spent tossing WG and Rejuv + spot heals on the raid. I’m not having mana issues at the moment, using Tyrande’s + JC healing trinket, so I think I can comfortably drop Moonglow.

    I’ve also found that I like mastery for the way I heal in 10 mans. 50/50 tank/raid time makes it useful since my general healing strategy for raid healing is WG and nourishing those targets, using HT and Rejuv/Swiftmend as needed, and letting Rejuv do its thing when I know I can comfortably let it tick.

  11. Selinya
    Posted January 19, 2011 at 10:57 am | Permalink

    Nature’s Bounty seems to be the really skippable talent to me. I’m not sure if the new changes to regrowth will make it more appealing, but right now I’m not planning on taking it. Even in raids, I don’t have to regrowth all that much, and most of the time when I’m using Nourish, its during the “safer” periods, when I don’t really care if it gets hasted.

    With the new rejuve changes, GotEM seems a much better point investment. Getting some extra healing from rejuve will be nice. And as much as Nature’s Swiftness can be weak, it’s still nice to have, especially on a less than ideal connection. I don’t plan on giving up Nature’s Cure either. Having that dispel is very handy for a lot of things.

    The one talent I would drop if I could is Living Seed. Sadly, I have to take it for Efflo. If they’re not going to unlink them, two changes would make LS decent for me – let it stack, and let it proc from HoT ticks.

    It would be nice if they would clear up some of the bloat in our tree. Forget the “fun” talents, I’m having trouble getting all the “required” ones.

  12. Neelah
    Posted January 19, 2011 at 8:16 pm | Permalink

    For me, I found the talent choice is often between throughput (such as GotEM, Blessing of the Grove) vs. the ability to send out fast burst heal (Nature’s swiftness and Nature’s Bounty). We just started doing 10 man 2 weeks ago and are currently at 5/12 with most of us in 346 gears.

    Besides Nature’s Swiftness, Nature’s Bounty + Regrowth is the only fast burst healing a druid has (although it’s not nearly as good as flash heal). In a 10 man raid, especially on difficult progression runs, things can get difficult and ppl can make mistakes (including myself). Losing a single player in 10 man often means a wipe. As a healer in 10 man raid (especially for progression runs), I found having additional tools/cooldown/survivability and send out the necessary life-saving healing on time is more important than a little bit throughput. Or even if my own burst healing does not save someone because Regrowth is weak, it might give the other healers extra 0.1 second to send out their heals to the player.

    I guess my logic in picking up Nature’s Bounty, Perserverence and speed enchant on boots instead of haste is that a dead druid has no throughput and a dead player cannot be healed back to life regardless of my throughput. And topping the healing meter with extra throughput on every WIPE due to lack of tools is not what I want. But I think my logic here is very situational and I would probably pick up the throughput talents when things get a little easier.

  13. Boinks
    Posted January 20, 2011 at 4:13 am | Permalink

    With the recent changes done in today’s hotfix which lets our rejuv only consume 16% base mana ( even though you still need 26% to cast it.. dumb i know but it can’t be fixed until a full client side patch can fix the mana requisite for this spell) In any case with this hotfix we will have ample time to figure out if we are going to personally want to drop Furor points or not.. For those who are asking about a 9% mana reduction vs 15% mana I will honestly say take both. You may be doing fine in Heroics mana wise but when you face these raid encounters you will totally wish you took both Furor and Moonglow over Genesis. I have encountered 12/12 non heroic and downed about half due to our duel raid group setups. I have about 2700 in combat mana regen when raid buffed w/ spirit buff food and flask. And account for another 1000mp5 proc’ing for 15 seconds every 60 seconds from a trinket and I still have mana issues on some fights. These being Chog’all, Conclave of Winds, Chimaeron and Nerfarion (which sadly we have yet to down) Heroics are cake walks on mana now. I am not here to flaunt my accomplishment but instead to point out these are hard fights and quite extensive. I originally planned to drop Furor myself but after the hotfix we attempted Nefarion and I still only had about 23% mana going into phase two which is no better then last night when we entered phase 2 and I had 15% mana remaining. The facts stand that any extra mana you can get is going to be worth it and any mana reduction you can take is worth it. It doesn’t matter how hard your spells hit if you can’t cast the next spell because you’re out of mana. It will be a very rare instance when your last drop of mana on a spell will push out a powerful enough spell to keep your raid alive in a raid encounter. For those wondering who I am or want to check my armory to see what I’m healing with I’m Boinks from the server US-Spinebreaker
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/spinebreaker/boinks/simple

    • Posted January 20, 2011 at 9:53 pm | Permalink

      Sadly, my guild only has Conclave and Magmaw on farm and are struggling elsewhere, but I think it’s our composition DPSwise if anything.

      I’ve healed all three platforms on Conclave and personally, I prefer Anshall. Rohash is cake if you can learn the movement. The only tough time I have is Nezir. But it’s mostly from trying to keep people up during the ultimate and then keep the tank up right after. However, I learned that the group doesn’t have to be healed if they’re 50% going from Nezir back to Anshall. The healer on that platform will have plenty of time before adds pop to bring them up with their manaefficient spells while tank healing. So it’s okay NOT to heal them and save mana, especially when your other healer on that platform is a Holy Pally. Barring that, I have little mana issues in terms of having enough, but it took awhile of figuring out what to heal and when not to on Conclave.

      I wish I could say the same for our other boss encounters.

      I think what’s interesting to see is that Resto Druids just aren’t viable in progression in the minds of the Leets. Just look at Paragon’s healing team. Three Holy Pallys and two Holy Priests on their Sinestra kill. That doesn’t inspire much confidence to those of us on the lowerend. Especially those who play classes that just aren’t considered viable *coughSHAMANcough* :\

      • Boinks
        Posted January 20, 2011 at 10:21 pm | Permalink

        Resto Druids are completely viable on almost all curent non heroic bosses in my opinion. The only boss I believe druids dont have the power to heal as well is the Chimaeron fight and possibly Nefarion. Just because of the shear damage done periodically and the lack luster power behind our hots. We don’t have 5-6 seconds to top of the raid with hots it has to be done instantly. This is part of the reason wild growth is being buffed so much. As well as our reworked Nature’s Bounty talent. They want us to heal better so we aren’t excluded from these encounters. Ever since Xaar from Paragon posted his thoughts on resto druids heals Blizzard has taken notice and are attempting to correct this. This should not be the reason Blizzard decided to make changes but they have as a result of this in my opinion.

      • thehampster
        Posted January 21, 2011 at 10:08 am | Permalink

        Wasn’t Xaar present for Paragon’s Sinestra kill? And isn’t he resto? Clearly we’re not completely unviable. Obviously we need some buffs though, but that’s what the next patch is supposedly doing. After 4.06 we’ll probably be more than ok.

        • Scott
          Posted January 21, 2011 at 1:53 pm | Permalink

          He was a moonkin for the Sinestra kill.

  14. Rivellana
    Posted January 21, 2011 at 12:02 pm | Permalink

    Ugh I’m starting to feel oppressed by this tree and the choices. I thought I had my 4.06 spec set up and I’d be ok dropping moonglow because of the mana change to rejuv but now that they hotfixed that mana change in and I’m STILL having mana issues I don’t know what to do.

    I read so much about how resto druids were horrible choices for raids, and yet now that we’ve started raiding I’m going in and outhealing my guild’s holy paladin and holy priest by signficant amounts, and already knowing they’re both good players, I can’t figure out if resto druids are really that bad or if it’s just the other people playing them that are bad. I’m doing 40% of healing done and 10.7k hps on Wyrmbreaker…o.O

    @thehampster: Xaar was present at Paragon’s Sinestra kill. And normally, yes, he’s resto. But he wasn’t for that fight, he was boomkin, and their healers were all holy paladins and holy priests.

    • Lissanna
      Posted January 21, 2011 at 12:48 pm | Permalink

      Based on previous discussions, the problem with resto druid healing is not being able to handle huge raid burst damage at the highest end of Hard-Mode raiding, which isn’t really a problem for the normal-mode raiding, and tends to be fight-specific. I tend to not stress over what world-first guilds do, because they aren’t representative of the playerbase at large, and have a long-standing tradition of class-stacking in world-first kills.

    • Benarus
      Posted January 21, 2011 at 2:38 pm | Permalink

      Some classes are better for some fights than others. I’ve only seen this from a perspective of 25s… so it may be different in the 10s.

      Resto druids seem to be good at medium-to-long fights where there is moderate raid damage (half the raid taking 25%-35% hp damage) and occasional burst on 2-3 targets. The best one I’ve seen as an example is the Ascendant Council (world 18th resto druid, booya!), with Wyrmbreaker following as a close second.

      The problems I’ve seen are on the fights where the entire raid takes significant damage, where we just don’t have the tools to deal with it. Namely, Chimearon and Cho’gall (haven’t seen Nef yet so I can’t say there). Perhaps some of the holy pally changes will even the playing field a bit… but who knows. I’ve had major mana issues with both of those fights, but so far they’re the only ones. I’ve definitely had to change my healing strategy a bit to deal with them. Not trying to keep up with the holy pally/priest on Cho’gall… but holding back, keeping my lifebloom up on a tank, healing touch for the tank when needed and nourish until 25%. I’ve turned into the ‘main’ dispeller and work to keep no less than 50% of my total mana available until phase 2 so I can rejuv/wg spam.

      • Lissanna
        Posted January 21, 2011 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

        yeah, sometimes finding a way to be useful to your raid doesn’t always mean being first on the e-peen meter. :)

  15. Conifer_SilverHand
    Posted January 21, 2011 at 12:49 pm | Permalink

    I’m having a very difficult time with the talents as they are laid out currently. If I drop Living Seed and Efflorescence, there are only 30 talent points that I want to spend in Resto. If I keep them both, I can get it down to 32, but ideally it’s closer to 35 or 36.

    Moonglow is a great talent but I worry about sacrificing Furor in favor of it. 3 points for +15% mana is pretty amazing when you think about our regen abilities. Both Innervate and Revitalize return a % of max mana. So the more mana we have, the better Innervate and Revitalize work for us.

    I’m thinking about the following:
    http://wowtal.com/#k=DfAQn8hXn.aei.druid.

    It makes sense to drop Nature’s Grace in favor of Resto talents if you don’t need to spend the points for Moonglow, but I really like the haste buff and I’m finding that while we are learning fights, throughput is more important that longevity. I currently have 127k mana fully raid buffed. I don’t have moonglow currently and definitely have to worry about mana, but not so much that encounters are failing because I’m oom.

  16. Thursdaylast
    Posted January 21, 2011 at 1:20 pm | Permalink

    Lissana,

    I’ve tried out a lot of variant builds since your cata posts started, and thought I’d offer some observations. We’re running 10 man regulars right now. I’m favoring Int over any other stat and haste a close second, and I sit on a mana pool of 115K fully buffed. I’m not gemmed for spirit at all really, and I no longer have real mana issues even on long fights. After your latest post I dropped the 6 points in Eff ad Living Seed, and placed them in a few different configurations. I’ve compared a lot of World of Logs data between various builds.

    What I’ve come up with won’t be news to you I suspect. My Eff and LS procs were a pitiful percentage of my total heals on any given fight, whether I was tank healing or using them on the raid. Putting those points to max out Rejuv and Regrowth did make for a noticeable improvement in using those spells all around. And with a solid mana pool, I don’t need to be too terribly stingy about placing them.

    That said, we’re still not viable raid healers at all. Not for real AOE damage anyway. Perhaps the mana cost reduction we’re expecting in the next patch will let us be a little more effective, but looking at the damage and imagining a 10-15% improvement in the power of those hots….meh. I still don’t see us being the raid healers we were of old.

    I think a nice compromise though might be to allow our hots to function for other the way our mastery functions to us right now. Better heals from others if our hots are out. Just a thought.

    Thanks for the great posts Lis!

    • Lissanna
      Posted January 21, 2011 at 3:56 pm | Permalink

      I may have to keep efflorsecence for 25-man raid healing. I really just wish that I didn’t have to take Living Seed.

      • Boinks
        Posted January 21, 2011 at 6:23 pm | Permalink

        My current view of Efflorescence is that to drop it now won’t hurt in 25 mans once the patch hits since Wild Growth is seeing such a massive buff. Efflorescence in a raid by shear numbers equals the total heals of about 1-2 ticks of wild growth when it’s cast.. With our new wild growth buff incoming we can feel comfortable dropping Eff and knowing our raid will get just the same heals as before while having more room to focus on our own raid survival talents built into the resto tree (which saves us mana at the same time)