The great food buff debate

Hey guys. So it’s been a while since I (Garnaph) last posted. As many of you know, I had to vanish for a while due to the birth of my daughter. Even when the dust settled on that and life started to return to normal, I realized that most of the news that everyone was talking about was from the MoP beta, and since I wasn’t in the beta, I didn’t really have anything to add.

However, with the MoP release, there’s a lot going on, and I’ve finally got something useful to say again. I missed writing articles, so I’m very keen to get back into it. I’m working on a new Power Auras series for the re-written version of the mod (as an update to my original series), but since the writers have been holding back the new version, I’m waiting until they release it so everyone can play around with it after reading my posts.

What I’d like to talk about today is MoP buff foods. Blizzard has been kind enough to complicate the hell out of it, so here’s what you need to know :

Cooking is now split into 6 “ways”. Each of these is levelled separately (your cooking skill for purposes of achievements etc is the maximum of these), and is tied to a specific stat (except for way of the brew, which I’ll ignore). Each of these ways ends with a feast, and a normal single buff food. Essentially, if you eat the “wrong” feast, you get 250 of your primary stat (375 if stamina). If you eat the “right” feast, you get 275 of your primary stat (415 if stamina).

  • Wok 275 Agility, 375 Stamina;
  • Oven 415 Stamina;
  • Steamer 275 Spirit, 375 Stamina;
  • Pot 275 Intelligence, 375 Stamina;
  • Grill 275 Strength, 375 Stamina.

All of the single buff foods give 300 of the stat associated with the food (450 for stamina).

  • Sea Mist Rice Noodles = 300 Agility
  • Steamed Crab Surprise = 300 Spirit
  • Chun Tian Spring Rolls = 450 Stamina
  • Mogu Fish Stew = 300 Intellect
  • Black Pepper Ribs and Shrimp = 300 Strength

On top of all of that, if you level every single one of the ways to max, you can complete the quest “master of the ways” which gives you access to the final ultimate feast, which gives 275 to your primary stat (415 stamina) to all.

Next up, note that healers will always get int from feasts, unless they eat from a Banquet of the steamer. Assuming that you have access to Pandaren Banquets or Great Pandaren Banquets (10 and 25 man versions, respectively) this means that everyone will get 275 in their preferred stat (except healers who may prefer to use single-buff food to get spirit instead, though there is some debate about whether Intellect or Spirit is better for healer consumables).

So, the question is, how do you deal with this? Do you force all raiders to farm up their 300 (415 stamina) food, or do you just accept that banquets are the way to go, and assist your healers in obtaining their 300 spirit food? Is the 25 in a stat really going to be worth all of the farming time involved for your 10/25 raiders?

I guess the answer to that question is based on your personal feelings on the matter. If you’re a world/realm top guild, you’ll probably suck it up for the extra 25, knowing you need to push your best. If you’re in a more casual guild, you’ll probably feel, as I do, that it’s just not worth the amount of effort and admin involved.

12 Comments

  1. Perrin
    Posted October 15, 2012 at 4:51 am | Permalink

    Option C:

    Get someone to master all ways and have everyone farm materials for Pandaren Banquet or Great Pandaren Banquet

  2. Posted October 15, 2012 at 4:53 am | Permalink

    The post clearly says feasts will only give you 275 in a stat, while single use food gives 300. So no, if those wanting max performance at all costs, that’s not an option ;)

  3. Lissanna
    Posted October 15, 2012 at 7:52 am | Permalink

    I also see it as a bigger problem: If you aren’t using the great pandaren feast, some people are getting 250 of the stat (which is 50 lower, not 25!). A pandaren getting the 250 food buff from feasts is actually 100 lower than their max food buff because of the racial that gives them double stats from food. So, I’ll use individual food to get me to at least the 275 food buff on my pandaren mage even when someone puts down a feast that would normally give me 250. The 275 individual food is super easy for me to make in comparison to the 300 individual food (where I only have maybe 5 or 10 on me at a time).

    • Posted October 15, 2012 at 9:54 am | Permalink

      Yeah that’s why I sucked it up and dropped 50k to level all ways so I could unlock the good stuff. I doubt many have the patience to do the same, however.

  4. hercdeisel
    Posted October 15, 2012 at 8:30 am | Permalink

    The thing about going from 275 to 300 is that it is the least efficient stat gain possible. 25 primary stat when raid buffed primary stats are 12k+ (easily) for entry level raiding is a ridiculously tiny gain that I seriously doubt leaves a trace that can be found in logs of people using the 300 versus 275. And it isn’t like it’s cheap or easy. It comes with a pretty steep price (the fishing/farming/etc. or just gold).

    Just upgrading one gem from green to perfect/rare quality provides more a 20% larger boost in primary stat, is permanent for the life of the gear, can be repeated throughout your gear, and is far, far, far cheaper.

    300 stat food over 275 food is a distinction without a difference. Of course, that’s not a reason to not pursue all upgrades from min/max mindset, but food is the absolute last frontier for min/maxers because it is hardly a form of maxing at all. Indeed, I’d guess that it’s so small you can’t even measure its effect. Max your gems, max your enchants, max your reforging, max your valor. If you’re bored, max your food. But don’t fool yourself into thinking that it is having a measurable impact on your raid performance.

    • Lissanna
      Posted October 15, 2012 at 9:45 am | Permalink

      I personally just think that it’s ridiculous for Blizzard to even have made that distinction in the first place. The max level of feasts should have been the same as the max level of individual foods. But, I guess it’s too late now to go back. ;)

      • Posted October 15, 2012 at 9:56 am | Permalink

        Honestly, with Motes of Harmony, Black Prince rep, and the never-ending daily rep grind, it’s clear Blizzard wants people out in the world killing stuff for as long as possible. With that in mind, it’s perfectly logical that they want you to kill even more stuff for your raid feasts. I disagree in the strongest possible terms, but at least they’re consistent ;)

  5. Ben
    Posted October 15, 2012 at 10:24 am | Permalink

    Based on the title, I assumed this post was going to be about int vs spirit :) based on what I’ve read, it seems pretty clear int food/flask is actually the way to go.

    In a nutshell: spirit doesn’t make your good heals better. You should always have enough mana to cast wild growth, swiftmend, and lifebloom, which are your really efficient, big heals. Past that, spirit is just letting you cast more RG and rejuv, which isn’t doing much. For example, he says that the spirit flask is enough mana to cast an extra 2 rejuvs every 3 minutes. Running the numbers, a small % increase across the board is going to probably be better, at least when trading int:spirit 1:1 like you do with food and flasks. At 1:2, with gems, spirit is more comparable, but even there it’s debatable.
    http://iam.yellingontheinternet.com/2012/10/08/why-more-spirit-is-not-the-answer-to-your-healing-problems/

    • Lissanna
      Posted October 15, 2012 at 11:41 am | Permalink

      The problem is that if you neglect and discredit spirit as a useful stat entirely across the board, you aren’t going to have enough mana to make it through all the encounters in raids. The flask may be the equivalent of 2 rejuvs, but if you find multiple thousands worth of spirit through various sources, it does start to add up after a while. If the INT you pick up resorts in over-healing and then you are still OOM before the end of a fight, then it’s not helping, either. So, it’s a pretty complicated issue that I don’t have math to bring into the fight. So, I edited Garnaph’s post to include a link to the stat debate going on there (there’s a huge list of comments talking about different sides of the argument). In the end, having either int or spirit consumables is likely fine for average raiders and the difference is only likely going to matter for the most hardcore of players anyway.

      • Posted October 15, 2012 at 12:02 pm | Permalink

        My post was intended to spark debate, whether it’s 300 food vs feasts, or Spirit vs Int for healers. I am by no means assuming that my opinion is right for all ;)

  6. Veres
    Posted October 26, 2012 at 4:55 am | Permalink

    I am not sure how other Banquets exactly work in such cases, but I noticed on my resto druid that when I make either a Banquet of the Steamer or a Banquet of the Pot I get a +275 stat in BOTH cases (Spirit from Steamer, Int from Pot). As ppl should normally get +275 only in their “preferred stat” from Banquets and +250 otherwise, I wonder what Blizz considers now as a “primary” stat for healers (perhaps specifically for restoration druids) – see the Int/Spirit discussion linked above.

  7. Vaporware
    Posted October 27, 2012 at 5:37 am | Permalink

    Unforgivable that power auras was not ready for MoP.
    Weakauras and not looking back.

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